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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/18/2005 3:27:21 PM
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DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Dear Goodme:
Me:
He said that the Father and I will give you the true bread of Heaven. ***NOT BY ANY OTHER MEDIATOR***
You: Where does it say this - verbatim as you have described?
Me: St. John:
"Jesus said to them, 'I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who as given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.'"
"Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me."
"Jesus answered, 'I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill.
Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life,
which the Son of Man will give you.
On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.'"
"'I am the bread of life. He who comes to me
will never go hungry, and he who believes me
will never be thirsty.'"
You: The Church, being the vessel of Faith that was given the Apostles by Christ and instituted under His authority in the Apostles is the authority by which the Sacramental aspects of Faith are conveyed.
Me: This is simply NOT the teaching of Jesus Christ from his word. See above passages as examples. Faith, In Christ, is a gift from God to each born again believer. We as believers have the fullness of Christ , sustaining us.
"For in Crhist all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you
have been given
fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.
"Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds becasue of your evil behavior.
But now he has reconciled you
by Christ's
physical body through death to present you
holy and blameless in his sight, without blemish and free from accustaion --- if you
continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved
from the hope held out in the gospel."
Me (quote): To me simply that means he will and so will the Father.
You: There's a story about a man stranded on an island, who prayed every day for food. "God, please give me food". Just before he starved to death, rescuers picked him up. When the rescuers asked him how he was, he said "My faith is seriously shaken". When the rescuer asked why, the man said, "because every day I prayed fervently for food and God did not answer. He sent me nothing to eat. In fact, I couldn't even get to the ocean because of all the obstacles that God had strewn all over the beach". The rescuer said, "Oh, you mean all the fishing poles, line and lures?". Your statement here reminds me of this joke.
Me: I am sorry I remind you of a joke. I take God's word seriously-and I trust His word, which simply teaches, Jesus and the Father give us "the true bread from heaven"-And, I believe God.
You: That Jesus created an institution by which we may receive the Sacramental Graces
Me: Jesus did not create this insitution. He said he IS the ressurrection and the life, and by faith, IN HIM, we have everlasting life. Each born again believer, can approach the throne room with boldness and with confidence through him. He has torn the curtain that had separated each us from God. We, by faith, possess "the true bread from heaven."
You: - which is then ignored by some Faithful, who determined for themselves that "this is not how God should convey Grace".
Me: Bless you.
I'll stand with the word of God, and not ignore what Jesus has taught.
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace WITH GOD
THROUGH OUR LORD Jesus Christ, through WHOM WE HAVE GAINED ACCESS BY FAITH into THIS GRACE in which we now stand."
You: Christ clearly instituted Church and its office and charge in the Apostles. I note many who often claim that this charge was given to all, and that there is no "Church", only "self". Baloney. Jesus was speaking to the Apostles, not the Samaritan woman drawing water from the well (the "living waters" story - where the woman DOES represent the laity).
Me: God, nor his grace cannot be contained in a box.
The ''reality'' is in Christ, the head of his body. He set the example and the pattern for us to be 'imitators of.' Each of us, IS connected to the Head.
"But in fact GOD has arranged the parts in the body, everyone of them, just as HE wanted them to be.
If they were all one part, where would the body be?
Me:
I remember his word: as Jesus said-do this IN rememberance of me. I also remember that he rose and lives in each made new heart.
That HE personally: sustains US 24/7, Spiritually.
That means HE feeds us and HE nurtures us, from HIS body to ours, by faith.
You: I also remember "DO this in rememberence of me". How do you interpret "DO this"?
Me: To 'partake' in communion with his body, in rememberance, the awesome significance of our Lord's last supper. And what it means for HIS body, to examine if Christ truely lives in our hearts, our lives, and to come to him for mercy and forgiveness.
This expression of honor, glory and praise to our God can be' fully' experienced in a home, under a tent, in a field, in a man made building, at a bedside. And with JUST a few fellow worshippers, who come to him in Spirit and in truth.
Grace and Peace
Grace and Peace
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/18/2005 5:20:34 PM
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GoodME
Posts: 120
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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ORIGINAL: DeborahL
You: Where does it say this - verbatim as you have described?
Me: St. John: This must be taken in context with Paul and Luke, among others.
"Jesus answered, 'I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill.
Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life,
which the Son of Man will give you - by instituting the charge and office in the Apostles to instruct the Faith and by giving them the Holy Spirit with which to do this at Pentecost. There was no intention that this mission and office die with the earthly deaths of the Apostles; the Apostles passed this charge, office and mission to their students - and so on, You are reading this in Scriptures because of this mission given to the Apostles, who thought writing some of this down would be a good way to communicate and teach it..
Me: This is simply NOT the teaching of Jesus Christ from his word. See above passages as examples. Faith, In Christ, is a gift from God to each born again believer. We as believers have the fullness of Christ , sustaining us. Then why may I visit this thread and see such inconsistencies and imperfections in this "gift of Faith"? Are you right, or is somebody else on this thread right, or is your pastor right? Who has the truth? If you say "the Bible", then I am going to again remind you of the results, noting the beauty of the theory.
"For in Crhist all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you
have been given
fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. The message of Christ come to us through the Apostles - Jesus left no diary or journal for us.
You: That Jesus created an institution by which we may receive the Sacramental Graces
Me: Jesus did not create this insitution. He said he IS the ressurrection and the life, and by faith, IN HIM, we have everlasting life. And Church discern's this message for us and is the guardian and keeper of the Faith. Each born again believer, can approach the throne room with boldness and with confidence through him. He has torn the curtain that had separated each us from God. We, by faith, possess "the true bread from heaven."
"Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace WITH GOD
THROUGH OUR LORD Jesus Christ, through WHOM WE HAVE GAINED ACCESS BY FAITH into THIS GRACE in which we now stand." "Gained access" implies "ability and locale from which to receive". I can gain access to the restaurant, and sit in the lobby going hungry while waiting for a table. You are implying "access" here to mean "receipt"; they are not the same. "Access" is not acccidental usage here. So - justified by Faith, saved by Grace. Justification and sanctification are two different things.
< Message edited by GoodME -- 4/18/2005 5:31:02 PM >
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/18/2005 8:01:25 PM
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DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Dear Goodme:
You: This must be taken in context with Paul and Luke, among others.
Me: I do not disagree
You:
There was no intention that this mission and office die with the earthly deaths of the Apostles; the Apostles passed this charge, office and mission to their students - and so on,
Me:
The apostles did what God called them to do.
And others according to God would be the beautiful feet that would spread the clear message of the good news of God. God inspires his children to their calling. NO specific earthly institution, can monopolize this. No boxes with God.
You:
Who has the truth? If you say "the Bible", then I am going to again remind you of the results, noting the beauty of the theory.
Me:
The word of God is truth. And HIS Spirit whom HE gives us, to learn to discern, by faith. Their is no beautiful theory, other than God and his Word; history has proven the hearts of men.
He teaches us to depend on him. Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit in order for us to understand and recognize what is his truth. No one has a monopoly on truth, rather the word teaches us that the Spirit in each peron will convict them of truth according to his conscience.
You: The message of Christ come to us through the Apostles - Jesus left no diary or journal for us.
Me: Yes, ''God'' left us his inspired word. And he gave us Jesus' Spirit which would not be with us unless he died and rose again. He tells us in his word: it is better I go-so that my Father sends you the Spirit of Truth.
You: That Jesus created an institution by which we may receive the Sacramental Graces
.."Gained access" implies "ability and locale from which to receive".
Me: I respectfully disagree. Jesus gave us himself to totally trust upon.
According to the word of God we have gained access to God's kingdom, and of his Son. No other earthly means is recorded. Than by God's gift of grace through his gift of faith, IN his Son.
You: I can gain access to the restaurant, and sit in the lobby going hungry while waiting for a table. You are implying "access" here to mean "receipt"; they are not the same.
Me: NO. Access is by faith. Faith has come has been revealed: Jesus Christ our Savior; and what '''this grace''' means to us.
You: "Access" is not acccidental usage here.
Me: Goodness no. God's grace is never accidental.
You: So - justified by Faith, saved by Grace. Justification and sanctification are two different things.
Me: NO.
By faith,
In Christ,
they are ALL
IN HIM.
Grace and Peace
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/18/2005 8:12:16 PM
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divinemercy
Posts: 46
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Justification and Santification are very much two different thing.
We are justified by faith in Christ and His Sacrifice and Resurrection. And thus we can be clean.
Deborah, How is santification obtained in your eyes?
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/19/2005 7:17:11 PM
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DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Dear Divinemercy:
You: Justification and Santification are very much two different thing.
Me: IN Christ they are the same.
You: We are justified by faith in Christ and His Sacrifice and Resurrection. And thus we can be clean.
Me: Amen. By God's 'Grace' through his gift of Faith, 'IN Christ', we are granted belief, sanctfication, justification and so much more. Praise God.
You: Deborah, How is santification obtained in your eyes?
Me: Through God's eyes:
"But we ought always to thank GOD
for you, brothers loved by the LORD,
because from the beginning, God chose you
to be saved through the sanctifying
WORK OF the Spirit
and through belief in the truth."
Grace and Peace
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/20/2005 10:59:10 AM
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facedown
Posts: 936
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
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I have not been very attentive to the change, and I have been rather busy with other things. I will attempt to make a reply to
quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Dear All:
I'll stand with Jesus Christ and his word:
He said that the Father and I will give you the true bread of Heaven. ***NOT BY ANY OTHER MEDIATOR***
To me simply that means he will and so will the Father. I also know from the word that the Father and Christ are testified by and through the Holy Spirit.
WHO lives in each believer, who IS the holy temple of God.
I remember his word: as Jesus said-do this IN rememberance of me. I also remember that he rose and lives in each made new heart.
That HE personally: sustains US 24/7, Spiritually.
That means HE feeds us and HE nurtures us, from HIS body to ours, by faith.
Grace and Peace
Thank you DeborahL, that was a wonderful pst.
I believe what Jesus said, that only those who feast on Christ will have life. I believe, as we partake of the Eucharist, we are indeed, literally feasting on Christ: through faith. I do not believe the only time such communion/feasting is evident is at the Holy Communion however. Indeed, the goal of life is communion with God. Those who unite themselves with God are one with God in spirit, as it is written.
This union, which God yearns for, is not...as you say "through another mediator", but by Christ, through the Spirit of God. It's not dependant on a physical act, or the mediation of another. HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that Christ is not literally present during the Holy Eucharist: indeed: Christ said He would be; and Christ is.
Communion is not about what we do, but about what Christ did: sacrificed Himself one time for the remission of sins. As we come together and remember this He promised He would be there. We feast by faith, and faith alone. In this sacrament rests a holy mystery, sacred in every way, yet boldly declaring that this is for us for “God so loved the world” (John 3:16).
Partaking of the Eucharist is a sacred and holy time. It is a time of reverence, and cannot be done with an impure heart. Only those who have clean hands and a pure heart may ascend His Holy Mountain (Psalm 24:3-4). Only those seeking God alone with all their heart will find Him. And to these worshipers, God reveals Himself in His Pure Light.
Christ is LORD at His Table, the risen and unseen Host (John 14:19). He is not there at the disposal of others, nor received automatically in the mere performance of a ritual. He is there according to His promise to those who seek Him in humble faith. He presents Himself in such a way, that unbelievers cannot feast on Him, yet by attempting to do so, eat and drink their own judgment (1 Corinthians 11:27).
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/20/2005 6:28:12 PM
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DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Dear facedown:
You: I believe what Jesus said, that only those who feast on Christ will have life.
Me: Not physically recreated, transformed or manufactured by the hands of men, but Spiritually by the Father and himself. The true bread COMES down from ''heaven'' and GIVES life to the world.
We depend on Jesus NOT made into an image, but spiritually. By faith.
You: I believe, as we partake of the Eucharist, we are indeed, literally feasting on Christ: through faith.
Me: This man made bread is not ''his actual body''. Nor is it transformed into his actual body.
This would vioLate his commands.
He has RISEN and IS spiritually alive by faith-the actual true bread FROM HEAVEN is not made into an image.
You: This union, which God yearns for, is not...as you say "through another mediator", but by Christ, through the Spirit of God. It's not dependant on a physical act, or the mediation of another. HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that Christ is not literally present during the Holy Eucharist: indeed: Christ said He would be; and Christ is.
Me: Present with us spiritually. His word does NOT teach us to create, transform nor manufacture HIS actual body and blood into an image. HE has risen and is spiritually alive and testified in us. By God.
You: Communion is not about what we do, but about what Christ did: sacrificed Himself one time for the remission of sins. As we come together and remember this He promised He would be there. We feast by faith, and faith alone. In this sacrament rests a holy mystery, sacred in every way, yet boldly declaring that this is for us for “God so loved the world” (John 3:16).
Me: Communion is about us 'remembering' what God has done and does for us. And to examine our hearts to see if Christ is there. We partake communion in 'rememberance'.
In Spirit and in truth. As this, is the true worshippers that God seeks.
Jesus said he and the Father give us his true bread. He is very much real and alive in his Sprit to ours.
Jesus has God's seal of approval-NO one else. And NO other ''forms'' have his seal of approval, NOR can be worshipped, or made to be him.
You: Partaking of the Eucharist is a sacred and holy time. It is a time of reverence, and cannot be done with an impure heart. Only those who have clean hands and a pure heart may ascend His Holy Mountain (Psalm 24:3-4). Only those seeking God alone with all their heart will find Him. And to these worshipers, God reveals Himself in His Pure Light.
Me: Partaking of Jesus is 24/7--with us totally depending on him. We come to him with a broken and contrite spirit. Our hearts ladened with humility and a desperate need for him. We are the temple where he lives-the holy mountain is brought by the merciful grace of God, NEAR to those who once were far. THIS is a SPIRITUAL act of GOD.
Our hearts are circumcised with the hand of God who loved us and is not ashamed to call us brothers. ACCORDING to his Word it is God who has made us alive with Christ, and to stand firm, in him. WE have nothing good to offer.
You: Christ is LORD at His Table, the risen and unseen Host (John 14:19). He is not there at the disposal of others, nor received automatically in the mere performance of a ritual. He is there according to His promise to those who seek Him in humble faith. He presents Himself in such a way, that unbelievers cannot feast on Him, yet by attempting to do so, eat and drink their own judgment (1 Corinthians 11:27).
Me: Agreed. HOWEVER, Jesus does not teach us, nor anywhere IN the NT to create, transform, OR manufacture HIS ACTUAL body and blood into man made forms.
"Christ did NOT enter a man- made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us IN God's presence.
NOR did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place evey year with blood that is NOT his own.
Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now, he has appeared ONCE for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgement, so Christ was sacrficed ONCE to take AWAY the SINS of many people; and he will APPEAR A second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."
Grace and Peace
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 7:55:32 AM
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facedown
Posts: 936
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
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There is always much to be missed, or misunderstood, if one reads superficially.
I appreciate your reply; however, you missed-by a long shot-the intent of my post.
The Son of God said (and says today)-Feast on Me.
This "feasting" is quite literal, and happens as we 'commune' (do not limit this word to the sacrament) with the LORD. It is written~those who join themselves with the LORD are one with Him in spirit.
Because we feast on Christ, ANY time we feast on Christ it's literal. You seem to be misunderstanding the word "literal" in the use of "feasting" to equate human flesh and human blood. I can awaken my spirit to God right now, and feast on Him with nothing around me~I am literally feasting on God, joined together with the LORD, one with Him in spirit. As one rends their heart to God, one feasts on God-literally.
BECAUSE of this, as one partakes of the sacrament known as the Eucharist, one is literally feasting on God. Partaking of His Flesh and Blood. God is present~God promised He would be, ANY time one feasts on Him.
Maybe those disciples who fled at Christs teaching, as recorded in John, would have included you? I hope not. I pray that none would reject the Eternal Word, the only Pure Way.
It is written: To the pure, You show Yourself as Pure. I believe, as one is joined together, as the praise of God's Glory, one literally sees the Marvelous Light. Often, we miss it, because we have pre-concieved notions about what this Light should look like.
Peace be with you
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 8:47:51 AM
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sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
There is always much to be missed, or misunderstood, if one reads superficially.
I appreciate your reply; however, you missed-by a long shot-the intent of my post.
The Son of God said (and says today)-Feast on Me.
This "feasting" is quite literal, and happens as we 'commune' (do not limit this word to the sacrament) with the LORD. It is written~those who join themselves with the LORD are one with Him in spirit.
Because we feast on Christ, ANY time we feast on Christ it's literal. You seem to be misunderstanding the word "literal" in the use of "feasting" to equate human flesh and human blood. I can awaken my spirit to God right now, and feast on Him with nothing around me~I am literally feasting on God, joined together with the LORD, one with Him in spirit. As one rends their heart to God, one feasts on God-literally.
BECAUSE of this, as one partakes of the sacrament known as the Eucharist, one is literally feasting on God. Partaking of His Flesh and Blood. God is present~God promised He would be, ANY time one feasts on Him.
Maybe those disciples who fled at Christs teaching, as recorded in John, would have included you? I hope not. I pray that none would reject the Eternal Word, the only Pure Way.
It is written: To the pure, You show Yourself as Pure. I believe, as one is joined together, as the praise of God's Glory, one literally sees the Marvelous Light. Often, we miss it, because we have pre-concieved notions about what this Light should look like.
Peace be with you
Dear facedown,
Not only Body and Blood. Soul and Divinity as well. In the Eucharist, we feast on all that Christ is.
On the Feast of St. Anselm
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 9:52:50 AM
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facedown
Posts: 936
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
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Christ is all, and is in all. The conclusion that God can be consumed in pieces is mistaken.
As well, do not assume that because we are one in Christ Jesus, joined together as the praise of God's Glory, united in and with Christ, one with Christ in spirit, controlled not by flesh, but by the very Spirit of God, indeed sons and daughters of God that we are God.
Peace be with you
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 12:34:27 PM
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sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
Christ is all, and is in all. The conclusion that God can be consumed in pieces is mistaken.
As well, do not assume that because we are one in Christ Jesus, joined together as the praise of God's Glory, united in and with Christ, one with Christ in spirit, controlled not by flesh, but by the very Spirit of God, indeed sons and daughters of God that we are God.
Peace be with you
Dear Facedown,
Your implication is correct. Christ is consumed in His entireity or not at all. That is what I said. I shall leave it for the New-Agers to claim we become gods.
On the Feast of St. Anselm
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 4:13:14 PM
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DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Dear facedown:
You: There is always much to be missed, or misunderstood, if one reads superficially.
I appreciate your reply; however, you missed-by a long shot-the intent of my post.
Me: Bless you. I do not think I have missed your intent.
I understood you gave understanding to my post and agreed with most. HOWEVER, are you not ALSO CLAIMING to feast literally on HIS actual body in a man made form called: the Eucharist.
You: The Son of God said (and says today)-Feast on Me.
This "feasting" is quite literal, and happens as we 'commune' (do not limit this word to the sacrament) with the LORD. It is written~those who join themselves with the LORD are one with Him in spirit.
Me: The LORD was telling us in John that his words are spirit and life. I never disagreed feeding on the LORD by faith in Spirit.
We feast on him spritually-this is WHERE his actual body is. He is not teaching us to recreate, transform, nor manufacture a wafer. NOR true bread that is concecrated by an earthly priest. When HIS Word says: Jesus has the seal of God's approval.
HIS actual body has risen! Has ascended to heaven and by HIS Spirit HE feeds us. By faith.
"'Just as the living Father
sent me and I live be-
cause of the Father, so the one who feeds
on me will live because of me.'"
You: Because we feast on Christ, ANY time we feast on Christ it's literal. You seem to be misunderstanding the word "literal" in the use of "feasting" to equate human flesh and human blood. I can awaken my spirit to God right now, and feast on Him with nothing around me~I am literally feasting on God, joined together with the LORD, one with Him in spirit. As one rends their heart to God, one feasts on God-literally.
Me: Never disagreed with this. HOWEVER to create his 'actual body' into a man made substance, by an earthly priest is not taught. Perhaps you need to reread my post.
You: BECAUSE of this, as one partakes of the sacrament known as the Eucharist, one is literally feasting on God. Partaking of His Flesh and Blood.
ME: NO I respectfully disagree -because this is not taught in HIS word. Jesus does not teach us: to create, transform nor manufacture a Eucharist, NOR his actual body concecrated by an earthly priest , NOR to place faith into a form that IS his acutal body.
JESUS said to partake of communion "IN REMEMBERANCE OF ME". The bread that we partake of is bread-in rememberance.
You: God is present~God promised He would be, ANY time one feasts on Him.
Me: Present becaue HE IS SPIRIT. And we cannot create an IMAGE of God. THIS violates his command.
You: Maybe those disciples who fled at Christs teaching, as recorded in John, would have included you? I hope not. I pray that none would reject the Eternal Word, the only Pure Way.
Me: Bless you: They could not understand his words that he ''had spoken to them'': ARE spirit and they are life.
Did they understand what Jesus said, that their forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever? Following this, could they understand what Jesus meant:
"'What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.'"
He went on to say, 'This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.'"
He taught us also:
'"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood REMAINS in me, and I IN him.'"
Jesus offered ''himself'' to the ETERNAL SPIRIT: "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to GOD, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God."
You: It is written: To the pure, You show Yourself as Pure. I believe, as one is joined together, as the praise of God's Glory, one literally sees the Marvelous Light. Often, we miss it, because we have pre-concieved notions about what this Light should look like.
Me: Bless you. The light of God is our LORD:
"But whenever anyone turns to the LORD,
the veil is taken away.
NOW the LORD is the Spirit,
and where the Spirit of the LORD is,
there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect
the LORD's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with
ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the LORD,
who is the SPIRIT."
Grace and Peace
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 4:55:53 PM
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facedown
Posts: 936
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
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I'm suprised that one could believe one feasts on God (indeed~must feast on God), yet one doesn't feast on God during a certain time, partaking of certain...communal meal.
Your logic doesn't track. As one partakes of the Eucharist one feasts on God, not because of bread or wine, but through faith. God is present, becasue God said He would be. God is present, not because of bread or wine-but because of our faith.
Peace be with you.
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 6:42:02 PM
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wawhoo73112
Posts: 98
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: ...darkness, into light...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
I'm suprised that one could believe one feasts on God (indeed~must feast on God), yet one doesn't feast on God during a certain time, partaking of certain...communal meal.
Your logic doesn't track. As one partakes of the Eucharist one feasts on God, not because of bread or wine, but through faith. God is present, becasue God said He would be. God is present, not because of bread or wine-but because of our faith.
Peace be with you.
AMEN in part.
We were wild olive branches grafted into the Vine of God Himself, and in Him we live and move and have our being, we have already 'com-unioned" with God through Christ and the Spirit, when we came to believe and were born again of God.
What was the 'meat' which Jesus ate?
Was it not doing the will of His Father?
Jesus said my flesh is food indeed, and my blood drink indeed, when we eat and drink of Christ, we eat and drink of His will for us, just as He did from His Father and our Father.
Jesus died to bring us to God so this could take place, that we all would be one in Him as He is one in the Father.
And now, we as His brethren, eat of the same food which was Christ's, which is to do His will, and His will is that we love one another just as He loved us, which is also the will of His Father and our Father in heaven.
And THIS is "come....union"
< Message edited by wawhoo73112 -- 4/21/2005 6:46:38 PM >
_____________________________
B  B
...Within our willing obedience, His will is worked through us...... and where His will is done.....there has His kingdom come........
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 8:07:34 PM
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sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wawhoo73112
They are merely symbols, if they become His blood and body, let's get some of the DNA. 
Dear wawhoo,
Believers are a new creation in Christ. Let's take some before and after DNA snippets and see if there is a change.
On the Feast of St. Anselm
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 8:14:49 PM
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DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Dear facedown:
You: I'm suprised that one could believe one feasts on God (indeed~must feast on God), yet one doesn't feast on God during a certain time, partaking of certain...communal meal.
Me: Perhaps you are not aware that feasting on Chrsit IS TOTALLY: 24/7.
In this IT is no different than communion. Though, being with others remembering "HIM, and his sacrfice IS awesome'': The continuity is: '''remembering him''', always...And what do we always carry with us?
In summary: his sacrifice and his redemption for and in our lives. Our walk.
You: Your logic doesn't track.
Bless you. God's word is good food.
You: As one partakes of the Eucharist one feasts on God, not because of bread or wine, but through faith.
Me: Bless you.
One feasts on his ''Spirit'' because that is where HIS actual body is for us. 24/7.
The Eucharist is a mere 'representation'. A symbol of "REMEMBERANCE"
And never can be an *IMAGE* of our GOD's ACTUAL BODY AND BLOOD.
If IT IS CONSIDERED BY MAN AS SUCH, this IS a violation to the command OF GOD.
You:
God is present, becasue God said He would be. God is present, not because of bread or wine-but because of our faith.
Me: God IS SPIRIT. And that IS where there IS LIFE.
Grace and Peace
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 8:17:18 PM
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DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Dear wawhoo:
"What was the 'meat' which Jesus ate?"
Me: He said man does not live on bread alone.
Grace and Peace
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 8:30:00 PM
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mysticman
Posts: 23
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
As one partakes of the Eucharist one feasts on God, not because of bread or wine, but through faith. God is present, becasue God said He would be. God is present, not because of bread or wine-but because of our faith.
Hey Face-
Good post (as always). Nice to see you again bro.
_____________________________
God bless you my friend-
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 8:46:20 PM
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sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
I'm suprised that one could believe one feasts on God (indeed~must feast on God), yet one doesn't feast on God during a certain time, partaking of certain...communal meal.
Your logic doesn't track. As one partakes of the Eucharist one feasts on God, not because of bread or wine, but through faith. God is present, becasue God said He would be. God is present, not because of bread or wine-but because of our faith.
Peace be with you.
Dear facedown,
Christ is present, not because of faith, but because of the action of the Holy Spirit.
On the Feast of St. Anselm
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/21/2005 9:04:52 PM
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DeborahL
Posts: 1345
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Dear brothers
quotes:
--"As one partakes of the Eucharist one feasts on God, not because of bread or wine, but through faith. God is present, becasue God said He would be. God is present, not because of bread or wine-but because of our faith. "
--"Christ is present, not because of faith, but because of the action of the Holy Spirit"
Me: Ok--Ok--
But not his ''actual body and blood" transformed, created or manufactured and concecrated by someone else than 'God.'
Do you simply see this?
Grace and Peace
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/22/2005 12:47:47 AM
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sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DeborahL
Dear brothers
quotes:
--"As one partakes of the Eucharist one feasts on God, not because of bread or wine, but through faith. God is present, becasue God said He would be. God is present, not because of bread or wine-but because of our faith. "
--"Christ is present, not because of faith, but because of the action of the Holy Spirit"
Me: Ok--Ok--
But not his ''actual body and blood" transformed, created or manufactured and concecrated by someone else than 'God.'
Do you simply see this?
Grace and Peace
Dear Deborah,
Since Catholics believe it is by the power of God that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, and you are ok with this, I will sleep well tonight knowing that you have come to this understanding.
On the Feast of St. Anselm
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints!
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/22/2005 7:30:39 AM
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facedown
Posts: 936
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
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Your 24/7 theory "sounds" nice; however, Scripture proves this to be false. I assume now (forgive me if I'm wrong) that your a Calvinist who believes in OSAS.
Some people feast, others do not. Some feast, and turn away from the table to feast on other food. Do a quick read through 1 and 2 Kings....
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RE: Eucharist... actual body and blood? - 4/22/2005 7:31:44 AM
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facedown
Posts: 936
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
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Hey mysticam, good to see you to brother.
Peace to you
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