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angry....at ME. - 11/2/2009 2:37:37 PM
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sherisauer1999
Posts: 2
Joined: 11/2/2009
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Been listening to an awesome series on Charles Stanley In Touch....
on Anger.
I went through all the people who have hurt me, people who I felt anger toward, but you know, I never think of those people unless I do it on purpose. This makes me think I truely am over it.
Then, I said to myself, who else could I be angry at LORD? Immediately I heard, that only leaves two ...You are either angry at ME, or at yourself.
I am not angry at my FATHER...so It makes sense to me, that I am angry at ME. All the stupid mistakes, selfish acts, poor judgement...all the trouble I have been in, just everything...
It made so much sense because I am not very nice or easy on myself, just like we would be to another person whom we do not like or are angry at. It was a lightbulb moment to say the least. My self esteem does not reflect the saved, in love with Jesus person that I believe I am.
HOW can I change this behavior, this feeling of self loathing? Believe me fellow believers, I HAVE DONE SOME DUMB and very sinful things..LOTS of them, and I can name a reason or an influence for everyone of them, but just the same, I was stupid enough to follow along. I guess what I am saying is, even after walking with the LORD for 10 years, I have not forgiven me, nor do I know how.
Dr. Stanely said if you could not talk to another person about forgiveness, then do the chair thing, like imagine that person in a chair across from you and tell them they are forgiven....but we are talking about Me here......
any thoughts?
Hoping for lots of prayer! 
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RE: angry....at ME. - 11/2/2009 2:54:05 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3281
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
I have not forgiven me, nor do I know how.
To not forgive yourself is to hold yourself as being a greater authority in your life than Jesus. In a way, it means that you are refusing God's forgiveness.
Imagine that you got caught for embezzling a million dollars. When you get to court your lawyer pleads guilty as though he had done the crime and pays back the million dollars out of his own pocket. So, the judge dismisses the case against you. The lawyer also tells you that he doesn't want you to pay him back the money. You then tell your lawyer and judge thank you but then insist that you are guilty and demand to go to jail and work to pay back the million dollars. Is that gratitude or ingratitude?
quote:
Dr. Stanely said if you could not talk to another person about forgiveness, then do the chair thing, like imagine that person in a chair across from you and tell them they are forgiven....but we are talking about Me here......
any thoughts?
You could still do that. You could also do that with a mirror.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: angry....at ME. - 11/2/2009 3:22:22 PM
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sherisauer1999
Posts: 2
Joined: 11/2/2009
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the attorney/judge thing was a very good analogy. And I do hear you. I know in my heart that Jesus does forgive me. And certainly do not want to short change HIS ultimate sacrifice. I just have to find a way to look at myself...perhaps in a mirror...and forgive me, and love me. I didn't even know this was an issue till now, we are constantly a work in progress. I just want to be all I can be for Him. It is time for me to address this head on.
Thanks for your input.
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RE: angry....at ME. - 11/2/2009 4:32:20 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1809
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sherisauer1999
Been listening to an awesome series on Charles Stanley In Touch....
on Anger.
I went through all the people who have hurt me, people who I felt anger toward, but you know, I never think of those people unless I do it on purpose. This makes me think I truely am over it.
Then, I said to myself, who else could I be angry at LORD? Immediately I heard, that only leaves two ...You are either angry at ME, or at yourself.
I am not angry at my FATHER...so It makes sense to me, that I am angry at ME. All the stupid mistakes, selfish acts, poor judgement...all the trouble I have been in, just everything...
It made so much sense because I am not very nice or easy on myself, just like we would be to another person whom we do not like or are angry at. It was a lightbulb moment to say the least. My self esteem does not reflect the saved, in love with Jesus person that I believe I am.
HOW can I change this behavior, this feeling of self loathing? Believe me fellow believers, I HAVE DONE SOME DUMB and very sinful things..LOTS of them, and I can name a reason or an influence for everyone of them, but just the same, I was stupid enough to follow along. I guess what I am saying is, even after walking with the LORD for 10 years, I have not forgiven me, nor do I know how.
Dr. Stanely said if you could not talk to another person about forgiveness, then do the chair thing, like imagine that person in a chair across from you and tell them they are forgiven....but we are talking about Me here......
any thoughts?
Hoping for lots of prayer!
sherisauer,
Isn't it beautiful when the Lord reveals things like this to us? You have ears to hear! Count yourself blessed, hon. 
And you are in a very beautiful place. The Lord has brought you here. Let Him accomplish the work within you that He has started.
He is showing you that you, your 'self', is still very much on the throne of your heart. And even though you think you are very bad, have done horrible, sinful, awful things, you really have exalted yourself, put yourself in the place Jesus wants to be. (I know what you are describing because I have lived this as well.) Jesus died as the sacrifice for your badness, your ugly sinful ways. And instead of believing and thanking and loving and allowing Him to rule and reign on the throne, you have lifted your badness, your sin, above Him and His sacrifice for you.
I did that for many years as well. And then the Lord allowed someone to come up against me who cast me down to the point of wanting to take my own life. But the Lord didn't allow me to end it. Instead He showed me how very much He loves me. And in order for me to really know His love, and accept His love for me, I had to remove myself from the exalted place of badness that I had put myself in. (I hope I'm making sense to you. . . it's difficult to describe and I surely am not trying to hurt you but instead help you understand where you are).
Anyway, let the Lord reveal what's going on in you. Listen to Him. Don't rush or hurry to 'figure things out'. Relax. Believe that He is going to use this as an awesome thing in your life to draw you closer and closer to Him.
He will. I'm believing for you.   Liveloved
_____________________________
Liveloved
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Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: angry....at ME. - 11/3/2009 1:46:55 AM
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cwb
Posts: 143
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: Eastern NC
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I have been working on a neighbor's spiritual condition for a few years.
She claims faith in Christ, but cannot listen to me talk about Jesus without changing the subject. So I'm concerned, needless to say.
She does claim to listen to Stanley. I've never been much into televangelists. One night however, Stanley came on when the remote was not at hand. I listened to his message. He taught the Word (the Truth).
He taught the Truth, he did NOT teach the WHOLE Truth, and he taught nothing but the Truth.
He referred 5 or 6 times to people dying without having Jesus as their savior. We as believers know that means you go to Hell. Stanley did not ONCE mention Hell. Hell is part of the WHOLE Truth.
Everything he said was [of] the Truth, and nothing that he taught was 'extra'. Unfortunately, he left out some of the Truth.
Listen CAREFULLY to ANYONE who preaches/teaches the Word. Listen for the WHOLE Truth...
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
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RE: angry....at ME. - 11/3/2009 10:50:07 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3811
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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I am not to keen on the idea of self-forgiveness. I have found no passage of the bible that supports it (and believe me I have looked). I have discussed it here in these forums and carefully examined every argument made for it, and again I find no scriptural basis for it. I do not dispute the psycological aspect of it but that is another discussion entirely.
Biblically, the idea of forgiveness is the cancelation of a debt. It is logically impossible to owe your self something.
I do understand the viewpoint that "self unforgiveness" equates to rejecting the forgiveness of Messiah, but do not believe it to be true. I can also agree that in at least some instances it is, as LL said, a result of having self on the throne. Bit I do not believe it is the case in all instances.
If that IS the case, just abdicate the throne and let Jesus be Lord. The other stuff will then self-correct.
Then there is the issue of unrightous anger. There is a way to "be angry and sin not," but much of human anger is inherently sinful. That DOES need to be repented of and confessed as sin and put away. So if there is unrightous anger directed at yourself, repent and leave it behind.
On a side note to cwb: Stanley DOES talk about hell. Perhaps he did not in the message you heard. One cannot put ALL truth into every message or you would have to read and expound on every subject in the entire 66 books of the bible at every sitting. Not possible.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: angry....at ME. - 11/3/2009 12:06:46 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1809
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
I am not to keen on the idea of self-forgiveness. I have found no passage of the bible that supports it (and believe me I have looked). I have discussed it here in these forums and carefully examined every argument made for it, and again I find no scriptural basis for it. I do not dispute the psycological aspect of it but that is another discussion entirely.
Biblically, the idea of forgiveness is the cancelation of a debt. It is logically impossible to owe your self something.
I do understand the viewpoint that "self unforgiveness" equates to rejecting the forgiveness of Messiah, but do not believe it to be true. I can also agree that in at least some instances it is, as LL said, a result of having self on the throne. Bit I do not believe it is the case in all instances.
If that IS the case, just abdicate the throne and let Jesus be Lord. The other stuff will then self-correct.
Then there is the issue of unrightous anger. There is a way to "be angry and sin not," but much of human anger is inherently sinful. That DOES need to be repented of and confessed as sin and put away. So if there is unrightous anger directed at yourself, repent and leave it behind.
On a side note to cwb: Stanley DOES talk about hell. Perhaps he did not in the message you heard. One cannot put ALL truth into every message or you would have to read and expound on every subject in the entire 66 books of the bible at every sitting. Not possible.
DaveW, I am in total agreement with self forgiveness not being biblical. The problem is self love, the exalted self. But the exalted self often hides behind a mask of poor, poor, pitiful me. Mine did. It's pride pure and simple. It's sin. And it must be put away. I thank God He showed me mine and did the needful work.
But He is a gentle Lover and brings us to these realizations in His way and His time, when He knows we are ready to bear it. I was His from before the foundations of the world, yet it took many years to get my 'self' off the throne of my heart. What a mighty God we serve! He doesn't become angry and throw us out. He woos us and loves us and eventually we abdicate (the throne). Hallelujah!
Self forgiveness is self love. But regardless of what others call it, the remedy is the same. 
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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RE: angry....at ME. - 11/3/2009 3:29:27 PM
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frankman
Posts: 239
Joined: 4/12/2005
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In Luke 7:36-50 Jesus met a woman who had lived a sinful life. This woman when meeting Jesus broke an expensive alabaster jar of perfume and then poured it on Jesus feet. In response to this great act of kindness to Jesus by this woman Jesus said to her in Luke 7:48 "Your sins are forgiven". So it is with you. If you have confessed your sins to Jesus and asked Him to forgive you, you too can be assured, your sins are forgiven.
However what your still feeling is the guilt of the memory of those sins. Because of Christ`s finished work for you on the cross you know the Savior has removed your sins- past, present and future. You now need to deal with your guilty feelings about your past wrong-doings. One way to do this is to be grateful. Be grateful that Jesus has forgiven you your sins and has set you free from condemnation and guilt. Allow God`s Word to counsel you in this direction. Some good passages of Scripture to study that deal with this problem are Ps.103:1-6; Ps.51; Isa.53 and John chapters 18 and 19.
Pray that God will give you peace and a clear conscience about the guilt your still feeling about your past sins as Acts 24:16 urges us to strive for. "So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man."
_____________________________
"Is not My word like fire,` declares the LORD, `and like a hammer that breaks a rock in peaces?" Jeremiah 23:29
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RE: angry....at ME. - 11/4/2009 11:13:02 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1809
Status: offline
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quote:
be grateful
frankman has spoken true words here and especially the ones I quoted above. Be grateful. Thankfulness is a huge need in my life. I am melancholy by temperament and can easily be drawn to the down side, the 'what is wrong' mentality, and poor, poor, pitiful me. Back into those 'self' loving and exalting ways.
But first I had to really know, come to understand deep down and within how very much I am loved by Jesus. It's not a love like being one of many. It's a love where I am special, I am delighted in, I am precious to Him. And if I were the only one who needed saving, He would have gone to the cross just for me. When I finally 'began' to understand that kind of love, His love, Calvary love, then I could also begin to discipline myself in being grateful and thankful.
For me, the love had to come first. I wrote a song that expressed this work the Lord did in me. It begins 'I will rejoice, I will be glad, for I am loved, my heart You have, for love You died, gave life to me, now I live loved eternally'.
He knows the way each one of us will take to get to that place of oneness and intimacy with Him. I am so thankful!\o/
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
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