|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/6/2008 3:28:11 AM
|
|
|
manichunter
Posts: 63
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
|
The Apostle Paul claimed to be still a Pharisee. Why did he continue to make this claim? Was he a new type of Pharisee or was he always a different type of Pharisee? Ac 23:6 - But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
What was a Pharisee- Pharisaios
A sect that seems to have started after the Jewish exile. In addition to OT books the Pharisees recognised in oral tradition a standard of belief and life. They sought for distinction and praise by outward observance of external rites and by outward forms of piety, and such as ceremonial washings, fastings, prayers, and alms giving; and, comparatively negligent of genuine piety, they prided themselves on their fancied good works. They held strenuously to a belief in the existence of good and evil angels, and to the expectation of a Messiah; and they cherished the hope that the dead, after a preliminary experience either of reward or of penalty in Hades, would be recalled to life by him, and be requited each according to his individual deeds. In opposition to the usurped dominion of the Herods and the rule of the Romans, they stoutly upheld the theocracy and their country's cause, and possessed great influence with the common people. According to Josephus they numbered more than 6000. They were bitter enemies of Jesus and his cause; and were in turn severely rebuked by him for their avarice, ambition, hollow reliance on outward works, and affection of piety in order to gain popularity.
At its most basic definition it meant to be separated or sanctified (holy) for God's use. It comes from the Hebrew root word parush. Its founders originally had good intentions, and some of its followers at the time of Christ had good intentions as members of the Pharisees as well. It was one of five school of thought or denominations at the time of Jesus. There is nothing different about to day concerning us following the same pattern of set different schools of thought and institutions.
We read a lot of stories of how Pharisees were converted to the Way of Jesus. Why? It has something to do with some of them being honest God seekers like Saul. Not all the qualities in the above definition are bad or could be applied to every Pharisee.
Here are some more honest Pharisees:
Joh 3:1 - There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
Mr 15:43 - Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. (Jesus was buried in a tomb meant for a member of the Sanhedrin which had to be either a Pharisee or Sadducee since you had to be one in order to an Elder, you had to pick a side to get some where in politics like today's political parties, ain't nothing new under the sun.)
Ac 6:7 - Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith. (You could not be a priest at this time which was incorrect since some where not from the tribe of Levi unless you were a Pharisee or Sadducee)
Hence why is Paul still calling himself a Pharisee?
I think he meant something by it that we do not understand today. To be a Pharisee meant multiple things, some good and some bad depending upon the person.
They were the shepherds and pastors of Israel at the time and Jesus commanded the people to obey them. Matt 23:1-3 1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
http://www.biblicallifeassembly.org/library/pdf/toap.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisee
There is a great gulf between today's christian thinking and that of the first century. Paul claimed to be a Pharisee and He backed it up by his observance towards Torah.
1.He kept the Holy Festivals
Ac 20:16 - For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the Day of Pentecost.
2.He instructed the Corinthian church to keep the Feast of Passover
1Co 5:8 - Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
3.He made a vow and commited animal sacrifices in the manner of Torah. He did not rebuke James suggestion
Ac 21:26 - Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them.
4.He called the Torah holy
Ro 7:12 - Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
5.He said that he delighted in the Torah
Ro 7:22 - For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
6.He bragged on Ananias concerning him keeping the Torah
Ac 22:12 -"Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there,
7.He obeyed the Torah
Ac 21:19-24 19When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.
< Message edited by manichunter -- 8/6/2008 3:53:08 AM >
_____________________________
Where is your Berean spirit. Challege everything to determine if you be of the faith. The devil is a tough foe. The messages have to be hard and piercing. So be it, count all things lost. Now off to the hunt to save souls!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/6/2008 9:01:36 AM
|
|
|
BerianAardvark
Posts: 371
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
|
Paul referred to himself as a Pharisee because he was one by training before he became a Christian.
Paul referred to Gamaliel as the teacher of his youth, who instructed him rigidly in the Mosaic law (Acts 22:3).
Gamaliel was not only a Pharisee, but also a member of the Sanhedrin, a teacher of the law, and held in high honor among all the people.
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/6/2008 6:54:25 PM
|
|
|
TrustingGod
Posts: 150
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
|
I think Paul stated he was a Pharisee to identify with his audience. It probably made them sit up listen. If I was talking to a group of Germans about some subject, I would be sure to include the fact that I have German descendents in both my parents' lineage - in an effort to connect with my audience.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/6/2008 10:09:07 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
I am too tired to look up the precise verse, but wasn't the reference in past tense? He used the reference he knew the Law and wanted to prove Jesus was the fufilment of the Law.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/7/2008 3:37:40 AM
|
|
|
toujours
Posts: 10
Joined: 8/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Similarly, when talking with Muslims, I often say that I have submitted myself to the Messiah. This comes out sounding like, "Islamt illa messiih", which catches their attention. Their obvious question is then "How can this be?" And that is exactly what I want to tell them.
Yes. I can see why this would be positive. Very good.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/7/2008 4:28:51 AM
|
|
|
FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 954
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
|
Uhm........................ Paul called himself a Pharisee because he was one prior to the infamous "Damascus Road" thing... That's why Paul was going to Damascus in the first place. He was a member of the Pharisee's group of Jewish scholars, and he was going to Damascus to persecute the church. It would be the same as me saying I am an American. I am, but I'm a Christian (yes, the two aren't the same).
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/8/2008 10:23:53 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4100
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark
Paul referred to himself as a Pharisee because he was one by training before he became a Christian.
Paul referred to Gamaliel as the teacher of his youth, who instructed him rigidly in the Mosaic law (Acts 22:3).
Gamaliel was not only a Pharisee, but also a member of the Sanhedrin, a teacher of the law, and held in high honor among all the people. 1 - Paul was still a Pharasee. If you do not understand that statement then you probably have the wrong definition of what a pharasee was. He listed one of the requirements in his statement: "I am on trial for hope in the resurrection of the dead." Sadduccean Jews (high priest et al) did not believe in a resurrection of any kind, and they did not believe any writings other than Genesis - Deuteronomy were truly inspired (i.e. bible).
2 - Gameliel the Great was not only in the Sanhedrin, he was the president of the Pharasaic side of it. (kinda like the Speaker of the House) The High Priest was the leader of the Sadduceean side. As to respect, he was the patriarch of the House of Hillel, one of the 2 great schools of Pharasees. He was Hillel's grandson.
I seriously doubt Paul would ever have described himself as having "become a christian." He considered himself a leader in the "Sect of the Nazoreans" which was considered even by other pharasees to be a new branch of Pharasaic Judiasm. The fact that Paul was invited to speak in synagogues in diverse places after becoming a believer in Messiah says he was still wearing his pharasaic credentials.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/8/2008 10:42:17 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4100
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Uhm........................ Paul called himself a Pharisee because he was one prior to the infamous "Damascus Road" thing... That's why Paul was going to Damascus in the first place. He was a member of the Pharisee's group of Jewish scholars, and he was going to Damascus to persecute the church. It would be the same as me saying I am an American. I am, but I'm a Christian (yes, the two aren't the same). Actually, going to Damascas was perhaps the most UN-pharasaic thing he ever did.
He went to the high priest (leader of the sadducees who were hated by the pharasees) to get orders for the arrest of the believers there. That would have been seen as a betrayal of his mentor Gameliel, who could also have issued the arrest warrants. Betrayal of a mentor was a serious offence in Pharasaism, and it still is today in rabbinic Judiasm.
We can understand why he did not get the papers from Gameliel: he was not offended by the new sect. We see in Luke one place where a group of pharasees warned Jesus that Herod wanted to arrest him. Perhaps these were from the Hillel school and not the Shammai school who opposed him so much. Gameliel or his father would have been the patriarch at that time. In acts, we see Gameliel taking a more wait-and-see attitude:
Act 5:34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the Law, respected by all the people, stood up in the Council and gave orders to put the men outside for a short time.
Act 5:35 And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you propose to do with these men.
Act 5:38 "So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown;
Act 5:39 but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God."
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/8/2008 1:21:46 PM
|
|
|
BerianAardvark
Posts: 371
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark
Paul referred to himself as a Pharisee because he was one by training before he became a Christian.
Paul referred to Gamaliel as the teacher of his youth, who instructed him rigidly in the Mosaic law (Acts 22:3).
Gamaliel was not only a Pharisee, but also a member of the Sanhedrin, a teacher of the law, and held in high honor among all the people. 1 - Paul was still a Pharasee. If you do not understand that statement then you probably have the wrong definition of what a pharasee was. He listed one of the requirements in his statement: "I am on trial for hope in the resurrection of the dead." Sadduccean Jews (high priest et al) did not believe in a resurrection of any kind, and they did not believe any writings other than Genesis - Deuteronomy were truly inspired (i.e. bible).
Sorry, poor phrasing on my part.
It was not only the law but the methods of hermeneutics and exegesis that marked the Pharisaic school. Paul's Midrash remained Pharisaic through all of his epistles, but then again so was Jesus' Midrash (You have heard it said, but I say...). The separation of "The Way" from a sect of Judaism into a distinct religion was gradual and included among other things the development of a distinctly Christian cannon and leadership (deacons, bishops).
That is why some of the very early books of the New Testament, for instance James (a date for its writing of 45 and 48 is widely accepted) and Jude (most likely written between 67 and 80) have such a distinctively Jewish "flavor".
quote:
2 - Gameliel the Great was not only in the Sanhedrin, he was the president of the Pharasaic side of it. (kinda like the Speaker of the House) The High Priest was the leader of the Sadduceean side. As to respect, he was the patriarch of the House of Hillel, one of the 2 great schools of Pharasees. He was Hillel's grandson.
I always found it curious that a student of Gamaliel who so consistently urged restraint would have become the most ferocious of the persecutors of the early church.
It was generally the Sadducees who were the most likely to be at the forefront of religious persecutions.
quote:
I seriously doubt Paul would ever have described himself as having "become a christian." He considered himself a leader in the "Sect of the Nazoreans" which was considered even by other pharasees to be a new branch of Pharasaic Judiasm. The fact that Paul was invited to speak in synagogues in diverse places after becoming a believer in Messiah says he was still wearing his pharasaic credentials.
Paul’s methodology was consistently to go to the Jew first then to the Greeks (gentiles), in the main both because Paul had a real heart for the Jews, but also because he generally argued from the Tanakh to show Christ as the messiah, and the Jews were the ones already grounded in it. And much of his initial success in the cities he visited was among the Jews and those Gentiles proselytes of the gate.
I agree that Paul considered himself to be a Pharisee (and during his lifetime Christianity was seen by many of its adherents to be a sect of Judaism), but he did consider himself to be a Christian first when it came to such issues as dietary law and circumcision...and the Council in Jerusalem (about 45 AD) agreed with him (as witness the letter that James, as the head of that council, wrote to the increasing number of Gentile believers (see Acts 15).
Tim
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/8/2008 3:18:33 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4100
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
Tim, look at Acts 21 and 28 also. Paul NEVER advocated Jewish believers forsaking the dietary laws or the feasts or any of that (21) and testified before the Jewish leaders of Rome in chapter 28 that he had not even violated the "traditions of the fathers," i.e. he even kept to the oral traditions.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Why Did Paul Call Himself A Pharisee - 8/9/2008 1:15:43 AM
|
|
|
BerianAardvark
Posts: 371
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Tim, look at Acts 21 and 28 also. Paul NEVER advocated Jewish believers forsaking the dietary laws or the feasts or any of that (21) and testified before the Jewish leaders of Rome in chapter 28 that he had not even violated the "traditions of the fathers," i.e. he even kept to the oral traditions.
But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
(Galatians 2:11-14)
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
