|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Who can explain propitiation? - 8/30/2008 6:21:12 PM
|
|
|
pinopolitan
Posts: 42
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
Isn't understanding propitiation important in knowing God?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 8/30/2008 7:12:47 PM
|
|
|
LCannon
Posts: 1255
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
Status: offline
|
Only in the sense that God prepared the only adequate alternative(propitiation)in the universe for the redemption of the world, visible and invisible. Jesus is that alternative and when one appropriates(claim for oneself)Jesus' sacrifice/obedience he comes into Jesus' inheritance and Victory.
Admit-“[Jesus] proved He had a valid claim [to His Deity] but His own rejected His claim yet as many as receives His message; to them he claimed the right to become redeemed of God and appropriate His Name.“ John 1:11,12
Confess-“[His message] is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching that if you confess [obedience to] Jesus as Lord with your mouth and you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes resulting in righteousness and with his mouth he confesses resulting in [obedience].” Romans 10:8-10
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 8/30/2008 9:20:34 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
Rom 3:21 - 26 (ESV) 21But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Heb 2:17 - 18 (ESV) 17Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
1 John 2:2 (ESV) 2He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:9 - 10 (ESV) 9In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Sin must be paid for and Jesus came to be the atoning sacrifice for our sins.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 8/30/2008 10:20:01 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 1963
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
From Parsons Bible Dictionary:
Propitiation THAT BY WHICH GOD IS RENDERED PROPITIOUS, i.e., by which it becomes consistent with his character and government to pardon and bless the sinner. The propitiation does not procure his love or make him loving; it only renders it consistent for him to exercise his love towards sinners. In Rom. 3:25 and Heb. 9:5 (AV, “Atonement Cover”) the Greek word hilasterion is used. It is the word employed by the Septuagint translators in Ex. 25:17 and elsewhere as the equivalent for the Hebrew kapporeth, which means “covering,” and is used of the lid of the ark of the covenant (Ex. 25:21; 30:6). This Greek word (hilasterion) came to denote not only the Atonement Cover or lid of the ark, but also propitiation or reconciliation by blood. On the great day of atonement the high priest carried the blood of the sacrifice he offered for all the people within the veil and sprinkled with it the “Atonement Cover,” and so made propitiation. In 1 John 2:2; 4:10, Christ is called the “propitiation for our sins.” Here a different Greek word is used (hilasmos). Christ is “the propitiation,” because by his becoming our substitute and assuming our obligations he expiated our guilt, covered it, by the vicarious punishment which he endured. (Compare Heb. 2:17, where the expression “make reconciliation” of the AV is more correctly in the RV “make propitiation.”)
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 8/30/2008 10:30:29 PM
|
|
|
URForgiven
Posts: 1123
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: pinopolitan
Isn't understanding propitiation important in knowing God?
It is important to understand propitiation because it is important to know you are forgiven totally, and that there is not one thing more you can do that will ever provide more forgiveness than Christ already has on that cross.
And that is important because now that you have been reconciled to God by Jesus Christ through His death on the cross, you can now be saved by His life! The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus!
Romans 5:10
For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
Without the "clearing of the deck" that propitiation provides, we would not be able to receive His saving life. And the only thing a dead person needs is life. Bless you.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 8/30/2008 11:33:15 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 1963
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
There was only one Holy sacrifice that would atone for the sins of mankind…nothing else would suffice and that was the blood of the living God…Jesus Christ. There was nothing else in this creation that was considered sinless. We know that the blood of animals didn’t work and man certainly had not been resolved of sin at that point.
Christ was and is the propitiation for the sins of mankind.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 8/31/2008 6:19:40 PM
|
|
|
SureHope
Posts: 1621
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: pinopolitan
Isn't understanding propitiation important in knowing God?
Yes, an understanding of propitiation is very important in knowing God for it shows us much of God's nature. The term propitiation refers to God's holy wrath against sinners being satisfied. The demands of the God's law and His justice were completely satisfied in the substitutionary sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. Once God was propitiated He could look upon the redeemed with favor, every obstacle to His mercy having been removed.
God was pleased to "demonstrate His righteousness" through the display of Christ Jesus as the propitiation.
whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:25-26 NASB95)
The Lord Jesus Christ crucified demonstrates God's righteousness in two ways:
1. Justifying His act of passing over sins committed before the Cross of Christ.
2. The display of Christ being a propitiation also demonstrates God justly justifying "the one who has faith in Jesus." God remains consistent with His moral character and nature in His justifying sinners by pouring out His wrath upon His Son, the Lord Jesus, thus satisfying His justice.
The term “propitiation” shows me that God is holy, righteous, just, angry at sin and sinners, merciful, gracious, forgiving and loving.
God has chosen to demonstrate Himself through the propitious sacrifice of Christ Jesus. Therefore, an understanding of “propitiation” is very important in knowing God. Thanks be to God!
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/2/2008 9:28:30 PM
|
|
|
facedown
Posts: 907
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: the urban desert
Status: offline
|
is it important....or can someone explain?
_____________________________
-| those who say, don't know. those who know, don't say |-
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/2/2008 10:54:48 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
is it important....or can someone explain?
1 John 4:9 - 10 (ESV)
In this the love of God
was made manifest among us,
that God sent his only Son into the world,
so that we might live through him.
In this is love,
not that we have loved God
but that he loved us
and sent his Son
to be the propitiation for our sins.
It is through God's sacrifice of His Son on the cross, sin's debt is attoned for so we can live out His love in the world. Sin always required the sheding of blood, Christ's death as the Lamb of God was the perfect sacrifice.
1 John 4:11 - 12 (ESV)
Beloved,
if God so loved us,
we also ought to love one another.
No one has ever seen God;
if we love one another,
God abides in us
and his love is perfected in us.
It is by accepting Christ's death on the cross as payment for our sins, we are free to love as God commands
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/3/2008 12:24:24 PM
|
|
|
SureHope
Posts: 1621
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: facedown
is it important....or can someone explain?
Both. It was important enough for the apostle Paul to explain in Romans.
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/3/2008 12:33:25 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 1963
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
Gee…I guess it’s not important if you’re not interested in the basis of you salvation.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/8/2008 11:16:24 PM
|
|
|
Theophile2
Posts: 216
Joined: 8/7/2008
Status: offline
|
From a Reformed Theology view, I would explain "propitiation" in the manner following my comment on it's importance as an opinion in reflection of how others have explained it in this thread.
However, to answer the other question, is it important to understand ... depends on how you view the question. Is it required for a person to understand the technical theological definition and basis for using this word in order for a person to accept Jesus as their personal Savior in faith alone and enter His Kingdom on this basis of faith alone? No. Are we not told in the scriptures to grow up in the knowledge of our faith and have a full understanding of our beliefs, the Gospel, and who God is? Yes.
Propitiation:
A piece of furniture in the Holy of Holies called the “mercy seat” is first introduced in Ex 25:17-22. In Hebrew it is כַפֹּרֶת (H3727; kappōret) and it is derived from the root word for atonement (H3722; kaphar) and which the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament translates as the “place of atonement” for the more commonly used “mercy seat.” The LXX translates kapporet as ἱλαστήριον (G2435; hilasterion), derived from G2433 (hilaskomai) which means “placated or appeased.” This, the Latin Vulgate in Ex 25:17 translates into propitiatorium, from the Latin root of “propitius” which means favorable or gracious. Hence is derived the English translation “propitiation” that is also used in Ro 3:25 for the Greek ἱλαστήριον (hilasterion) to describe the work of Christ on the cross (cf. He 2:17; 1Jn 2:2 and 4:10).
To be propitious is to “be favorably disposed towards someone,” so to propitiate is to “regain the favor of” or “appease” someone.
Propitiation is the act (by Christ) of providing satisfaction for a righteous God, concerning the ransom and expiation debts Divine justice requires for the atonement of the sin-laden human soul, and the restoration of creation from corruption. God is propitiated by the sacrifice of the Lamb of God through the shedding of His blood, thus providing full satisfaction for debts owed, and taking away the sins of the world. The atonement is provided by the love of God Himself on the sinner’s behalf, through the Divine gift of faith in the blood of His Son Jesus Christ the Redeemer. This Lamb, as Christ the King, rose from the dead and is now sitting on the true Mercy Seat at the right hand of God the Father, in a house not made with hands (cf. He 9:1-28). Hence, Jehovah-Shalom, the God of Peace, is willing to declare the redeemed sinner who takes hold of Christ as his or her Savior through a faith quickened only by the Holy Spirit, justified and forgiven. The prerequisites for reconciliation having been satisfied by God Himself, the way is now open through the one and only Mediator, Jesus Christ, for God the Father and His adopted children to be in communion with each other.
I posted a further discussion on the concept of atonement here, which I reference as being important in the discussion of what propitiation means from a Reformed Theology perspective.
I would further add, that understanding the whys and wherefores of the tabernacle system of sacrifices as types foreshadowing the person and work of Christ help to delineate other theological concepts that are intimately related to and necessary for understanding propitiation, such as:
• Sin-offering (Lev 4; Lev 6:24-30; Isaiah 53:4-6) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (Jn 1:29) with the purpose of being the Ransom (payment in violating God's Law).
• Trespass-offering (Lev 5; Lev 6:1-7; Lev 7:1-7; Is 53:10) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (Mt 20:28) with the purpose of being the Expiation (restitution for damages).
• Burnt-offering (Lev 1; Lev 6:8-13) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (Eph 5:2) with the purpose of Dedication one's self to God (sweet savor)
• The shedding of blood (Lev 16:14-19) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (1Jn 2:2) with the purpose of Atonement.
• The scape goat (Lev 16:8-10; Is 53:7-9) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb (1 Pet 2:24) with the purpose of Remission of sins.
• The Mercy Seat (Ex 25:17-22) to the Deity of Christ (1 Jn 2:2) for the purposes of Propitiation (satisfaction/Forgiveness).
• Cereal-offering (Lev 2; Lev 6:14-23) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb, with the purpose of being Thankful and a Voluntary obedience (sweet savor)
• Peace-offering (Lev 3; Lev 7:11-21) to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb, with the purpose of Reconciliation/Communion with God (sweet savor)
• Feast of First Fruits (Pentecost - Lev 23:15-16) compared to Regeneration (1 Pe 1:23)
• The Lavar (Ex 30:17-21) to Jesus as the Logos (Jn 15:3) with the purpose of Imputed Righteousness (given by God to us, not earned by us).
• The water (Ge 15:6) to the Holy Spirit (Eph 5:26; James 1:23-24) with the purpose of Sanctification (Php 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ)
Parunak, Biblia Hebraica, Ex 25:17.
Harris, Theological Wordbook, 452.
Alfred Rahlfs, ed., Septuaginta: With morphology, [CD-ROM] available from Logos (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1979; 1996), Ex 25:17.
Bonifatius Fischer and Robert Weber, eds., Biblia Sacra: Iuxta Vulgatam Versionem, ed. quartam emendatam, [CD-ROM] available from Logos (Stuttgart: Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft, 1969; 1997), Ex 25:17.
Brown, William. The Tabernacle: Its Priests and Services. Updated edition. Peabody, MA.: Hendrickson Publishers, Inc. 1996; 2000.
Eldersheim, Alfred. The Temple: Its Ministry and Services As They Were at the Time of Jesus Christ. Grand Rapids, MI.: Kregel Publications, 1874; 1997.
Levy, David M. The Tabernacle: Shadows of the Messiah, Its Sacrifices, Services, and Priesthood. Grand Rapids, MI.: Kregel Publications,1993; 2003.
_____________________________
"Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason ... my conscience is captive to the Word of God." - Martin Luther, Diet of Worms, April 2, 1521.
*** Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura, Solus Christus, Soli Deo Gloria ***
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/9/2008 9:10:51 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
Propitiation is the act of offering something conciliatory to appease or calm a situation.
Christ was the offering (The propitiate) to appease and calm God for His anger over our sins.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/9/2008 10:46:09 AM
|
|
|
justasheep
Posts: 44
Joined: 5/13/2008
Status: offline
|
I've enjoyed many of the responses here. It is sad that this word has all but dissapeared from today's evangelical vocabulary. The word tells us much about a Holy God and the sinfullness of sin.
Just as redemption presupposes captivity, propitiation presupposes anger, wrath, and threat of punishment justly do to sinners such as ourselves. This propitiation is the appeasement of the kindled wrath of God. When God put Christ foward as a propitiation, his wrath was completely absorbed, exhausted and eliminated by virtue of it being spent in its entireity upon Christ. This is the Gospel. It is indeed good news for all people who would place their trust in this finished work of Christ.
Without this understanding the Gospel is not nearly as gracious, not nearly as merciful and not nearly as good. In fact I would say that it is merely news rather than good news, really the greatest news that has ever been uttered.
_____________________________
Life is wasted if we do not grasp the glory of the cross, cheerish it for the treasure that it is, and cleave to it as the highest price of every pleasure and the deepest comfort of every pain.
John Piper
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/9/2008 1:27:57 PM
|
|
|
Doghouse
Posts: 889
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
Status: offline
|
The only question I have related to the OP is whether or not we are talking about propitiation - the turning away of wrath by the offer of appeasement (a "bribe" might be the way to think of this),
or
expiation - the reparation or atonement for an act to satisfy the demands of justice or to make things whole again.
Which way is it interpreted in your English translation? (this should be a poll)
Its hard for me to resolve "propitiation" with God in its proper rendering. Propitiation presumes hostility, and the ability to unfocus or distract. I don't believe either of these qualities apply to God.
Expiation doesn't imply this, but I believe accurately describes the the balancing of the scales of justice that is demanded by a just God.
_____________________________
When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity...it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if he turns from the wickedness he has committed, he does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life" - Ez 18:25-28
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/9/2008 1:40:00 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doghouse
Its hard for me to resolve "propitiation" with God in its proper rendering. Propitiation presumes hostility, and the ability to unfocus or distract. I don't believe either of these qualities apply to God.
So you think John did not write what the Holy Spirit directed him to write, or that the translator did not understand what John had written.
I guess either way you are disagreeing with plain Scripture on what Christ was by trying to make it fit into some doctrine you may have.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/9/2008 4:05:21 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Doghouse
Its hard for me to resolve "propitiation" with God in its proper rendering. Propitiation presumes hostility, and the ability to unfocus or distract. I don't believe either of these qualities apply to God.
Rev 14:9 - 12 (HCSB) 9And a third angel£ followed them and spoke with a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he will also drink the wine of God’s wrath, which is mixed full strength in the cup of His anger.£ He will be tormented with fire and sulfur£ in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb, 11and the smoke of their torment will go up forever and ever.£ There is no rest£ day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or anyone who receives the mark of his name. 12Here is the endurance£ £ of the saints,£ who keep the commandments of God and the faith in Jesus.”£
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/9/2008 4:26:16 PM
|
|
|
rileykins
Posts: 170
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
Propitiation means satisfaction, or to satisfy. Christ’s death on the cross satisfied the demands of God’s Justice.
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: Isa.53:11
If God the Father is satisfied that Jesus Christ has provided the full and complete payment for the penalty of our sins, then so should we. Christ left nothing undone or incomplete. This is why salvation is through faith and faith alone.
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood,..
Romans 3:25
Some people don't believe it is enough just to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. They think there must be more to do. NO, the Scriptures make it clear that Christ has done it all.
rileykins
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/15/2008 6:20:44 PM
|
|
|
Doghouse
Posts: 889
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
Status: offline
|
quote:
I guess either way you are disagreeing with plain Scripture on what Christ was by trying to make it fit into some doctrine you may have. Actually...I was just wondering how people felt about one word or the other.
But I appreciate the sweetness and kindness of the tone with which you leveled the unmerited accusation at me above.
_____________________________
When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity...it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if he turns from the wickedness he has committed, he does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life" - Ez 18:25-28
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/15/2008 6:25:48 PM
|
|
|
Doghouse
Posts: 889
Joined: 8/25/2007
From: The Buckle of the Bible Belt
Status: offline
|
quote:
Some people don't believe it is enough just to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. They think there must be more to do. NO, the Scriptures make it clear that Christ has done it all.
Matt 16:27; Romans 2:6; Rev 2:23; Rev 14:12; Rev 20:12-13; Rev 22:12 ... but that is the subject of another thread than this one, isn't it?
_____________________________
When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity...it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if he turns from the wickedness he has committed, he does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life" - Ez 18:25-28
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Who can explain propitiation? - 9/16/2008 6:06:20 AM
|
|
|
SureHope
Posts: 1621
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: justasheep
I've enjoyed many of the responses here. It is sad that this word has all but dissapeared from today's evangelical vocabulary. The word tells us much about a Holy God and the sinfullness of sin.
Just as redemption presupposes captivity, propitiation presupposes anger, wrath, and threat of punishment justly do to sinners such as ourselves. This propitiation is the appeasement of the kindled wrath of God. When God put Christ foward as a propitiation, his wrath was completely absorbed, exhausted and eliminated by virtue of it being spent in its entireity upon Christ. This is the Gospel. It is indeed good news for all people who would place their trust in this finished work of Christ.
Without this understanding the Gospel is not nearly as gracious, not nearly as merciful and not nearly as good. In fact I would say that it is merely news rather than good news, really the greatest news that has ever been uttered.
I couldn't agree with this more.
The gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is good news because those who believe are not given what they deserve (the wrath of God), but just the opposite - the pleasure of God. Because the Lord Jesus Christ demonstrated His love towards us by becoming sin for us and taking on the punishment for our sins (the wrath of God), those who believe are no longer under the wrath of God but have been made fit to enjoy God forever. This is good news indeed!
Blessings,
SH
_____________________________
-Fix Your Hope Completely on the Grace to be Brought to You at the Revelation of Jesus Christ (1 Pet 1:13)
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
