|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
When a leader is in error - 9/12/2008 6:27:55 AM
|
|
|
HenriettasCat
Posts: 217
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
|
When a minister is in error, how should it be handled.
There is a teaching in our church which is leading people astray. It is not taught openly but now that several members have expressed deep concern it is being swept under the carpet.
The minister has been challenged, but he stands his ground. Whilst I don't wish to cause trouble I am wondering what the next step should be. I don't think it right to 'attack' him from within (I don't want to attack him at all, this is a spiritual battle I just couldn't think of a better word. We are praying for this man and it is all very painful). Is the appropriate step to write to the authority over him within our denomination?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/12/2008 6:43:58 AM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 1984
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Matthew 18 is the best place to start.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/12/2008 7:30:48 AM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1785
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
Has this matter been taken to the Elders?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/12/2008 7:39:32 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
It would depend on the by-laws of your particular Church. Do you have a board of Deacons or Elders that have oversight? If so thim after you approach the person doing the teachings you deem to be off base; then go to them.
If you are in a Denomination then after you have approached both the Pastor and the board; then you have the option of contacting whom ever tje ;eadership of the Church is accountable to.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/12/2008 5:14:46 PM
|
|
|
redeemedsaint
Posts: 502
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline
|
Matthew 18 comes into play here and I would go to him in love and explain his error. Hopefully he will respond in a Christ-like manner.
_____________________________
Woody
Get off the track cause the freight train is coming - Coach Bobby Lee Duke from Facing the Giants
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/12/2008 5:57:43 PM
|
|
|
pbaribeault
Posts: 1041
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline
|
There is a difficult thing about trying not to be too clear about the issue.
"Error" can mean:
- a disagreement on a non-core issue
- a disagreement on a contentious issue that has a few 'camps' among Christians
- making some kind of choice out to be a salvation issue when it is not
- a somewhat unorthodox idea not supported by Scripture
- a clear violation of scripture
- blasphemy
...
"Leading people astray" can mean:
- confusing people
- lending undue weight as a pastor to an issue that people should be able to come to their own conclusions about
- encouraging people to be too open to the unorthodox
- taking the focus off Jesus
- encouraging or enabling immoral behaviour (of various severity)
- compromising people's foundational beliefs of salvation
...
How to deal with this has a lot to do with 'how bad' it really is.
Since it's not open, but being taught, is it possible that it is a private conviction of the pastor's that he has no desire to use his position to promote? Or is he being intentionally subversive in spreading it in underhanded ways?
Why is it causing such deep concern? What is the potential damage?
Who challenges him? Is it OK for him to hold on to his opinion, and still be in fellowship with (and leadership over) those who hold other opinions? Is it OK for you to remain under a man who holds this 'error' to be true?
In your set up, is there any form of accountability for the pastor, or authority over him? Perhaps someone you can see or talk to directly? If so, you might write or call, but only after you briefly state your intent to do so (and the reasons why) to your pastor directly.
You are getting a bit of Matt 18 advice, which deals with sins against you. Do you feel that this 'error' is a sin against you? If so, follow the directives. If not, some of the concepts might guide your actions, but some of the steps are not applicable.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/13/2008 10:27:58 AM
|
|
|
jn1010lf
Posts: 323
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
|
Hello HenriettasCat
Do understand that any person that reads the Bible can find truth. So, proceed for there.
You may not like what I'm going to say next but consider it. Speaking of error, is there any scriptures in the Bible that justufy denominations? Doesn't scripture say that a Christian is simply a person that has a relationship with God the Father through Jesus Christ? Where are the labels of denominations in scripture?
So, if your entire church is not true to scripture, how can you fault your pastor. He may be simply teaching something that your denomination doesn't accept.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/13/2008 10:18:50 PM
|
|
|
psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
The minister has been challenged, but he stands his ground.
Does the ground he stands on scriptural?
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 12:09:59 AM
|
|
|
elliemaejune
Posts: 84
Joined: 9/16/2006
Status: offline
|
I don't believe this is a Matthew 18 issue. I believe this requires more direct attention, probably through the elders (or whatever your church does), and if they won't do anything, then whatever is the next higher up in authority.
Remember that Paul openly opposed Peter to his face because of his behavior.
Although a brother's sin should be addressed, the way it is addressed depends on who the brother is and under what situation he sinned. IMHO, Matthew 18 has to do with a personal kind of sin, one brother offending another, not a pastor teaching error.
_____________________________
Born again since 1974
Married to Mr. Ellie for over 30 years
Mom to 2 dds and 2 dsil
Caretaker of 2 cats, 1 French bulldog, and 6 hermit crabs
Hula dancer extraordinaire
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 12:54:01 AM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1785
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
A minister's only ground should be the Word of God. Standing on anything less is like building a house on sinking sand.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 1:05:04 AM
|
|
|
psalm116
Posts: 179
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
A minister's only ground should be the Word of God. Standing on anything less is like building a house on sinking sand.
Exactly, that's why I asked if the ground he was standing on was scriptural. If it is, then it may be a problem with the leaders of the church.
_____________________________
"I love the Lord because He hears my voice and my supplications. Because He has inclined His ear to me, Therefore I shall call upon Him as long as I live."
~Psalm 116:1,2
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 8:55:46 AM
|
|
|
HenriettasCat
Posts: 217
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
|
Pbaribeault - I've pm'd you as to some of your questions.
The issue is regarding a clear violation of scripture, I believe it is being taught subversively.
There is a leadership board but I would say that there are few mature Christians in our church. The pastor is a very strong figure and I have a feeling a lot of people are afraid of him.
jn1010lf - I am in a denomination simply because I don't have a lot of choice regards to church. I hope my answer above has answered your question. The church is full of immature Christians. In fact the more I think about it the more I can see that the pastor is very good at giving people jobs to do and keeping people busy - but actually there is very little solid teaching. (maybe so no-one crosses him??).
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 1:36:32 PM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1785
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
first of all you should not be in a church where you or anyone else feels intimidated by the pastor. If you feel people are "afraid of him" what are you doing there would be my first question...and the second would be what are you going to do about the information you know?
The correct thing for a member to do is bring it before the elders.
Check your church bylaws and see what the recommended steps are when the Pastor is in need of correction. There should be a governing body of elders with wisdom to deal with the pastor according to guidelines.
If the pastor is not open to correction then he is in sin. I don't encourage anyone to stay in a church where the leadership is walking in sin.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 2:40:28 PM
|
|
|
Dancre
Posts: 1264
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
I suggest first you make double dog gone sure he's leading others astray and this isn't just a case of 'this isn't my doctrine'. He maybe teaching something from the Bible, but your doctrine doesn't agree with it. Make sure first there are scriptures that speak against his teaching. You don't want to realize in the end that he was right and you were wrong.
kim
quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
When a minister is in error, how should it be handled.
There is a teaching in our church which is leading people astray. It is not taught openly but now that several members have expressed deep concern it is being swept under the carpet.
The minister has been challenged, but he stands his ground. Whilst I don't wish to cause trouble I am wondering what the next step should be. I don't think it right to 'attack' him from within (I don't want to attack him at all, this is a spiritual battle I just couldn't think of a better word. We are praying for this man and it is all very painful). Is the appropriate step to write to the authority over him within our denomination?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 2:51:44 PM
|
|
|
Dancre
Posts: 1264
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
So you came into this church and you don't like what the pastor preaches and now you want to change everything? Not to mention you're not a part of the church? Sorry, Henrietta, but I doubt the pastor or anyone else will take you very seriously since you're not a solid part of the church. I suggest you chill your jets for a while instead of trying to change everything you don't like. Sorry to be so cruel, but I've seen people who go into churches, try to change everything they don't like and leave offended b/c no one listened to them or worse the church splits. If the majority of the people don't have a problem with the pastor, then maybe you are the problem and not the pastor. If you want fellowship, then take it, but leave the pastor alone. If he's off, then GOD will deal with him. God doesn't need your help nor has He asked for it. I suggest you leave this church and find one you like instead of trying to change the things you don't like. And remember, he might be preaching stuff that against your DOCTRINE, not the word of God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
buckifn
We are there because we were desperate to be part of a church and there is little choice in our area. Admittedly we joined far to quickly and I soon realised that there were some dodgy undercurrents. I have never taken to the pastor and apart from a few individuals within the church we held the church (as far as Sunday meetings) at arms length really - we went enough to keep people off our backs - pitiful I know  .
Unfortunately only a minority of the board of elders agrees with us on this particular issue  .
We have craved fellowship and still do. We are staying in the church for now primarily because we believe that people should have the opportunity to hear God's word and not be decieved. To leave at this point would - in our opinion- be to do a Jonah. We see this as a potential opportunity for the church, but yes if the message is rejected we may have to leave ... and then I don't know what because as I said there is not much choice.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 3:40:47 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
Pbaribeault - I've pm'd you as to some of your questions.
The issue is regarding a clear violation of scripture, I believe it is being taught subversively.
There is a leadership board but I would say that there are few mature Christians in our church. The pastor is a very strong figure and I have a feeling a lot of people are afraid of him.
jn1010lf - I am in a denomination simply because I don't have a lot of choice regards to church. I hope my answer above has answered your question. The church is full of immature Christians. In fact the more I think about it the more I can see that the pastor is very good at giving people jobs to do and keeping people busy - but actually there is very little solid teaching. (maybe so no-one crosses him??).
Well first try the Pastor by asking hem to explain the position, if that doesn't get an answer to your satisfaction; then try the leadership board, if you still feel the teaching is in variance to the Word; then contact the demonimation or local conference that the Church is in subjection to.
If that does not get the the appropriate results; then either your interpretation of Scripture is wrong, or you need to change denominations.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 3:51:46 PM
|
|
|
HenriettasCat
Posts: 217
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
|
Dancre
No - it is not a doctrinal issue - it is a clear morality issue. And don't worry about being frank - although you are missing the point.
All I came to find out about on this forum was whether there was any biblical guidance/general rule of thumb - not to have my life/motives analysed - though I don't mind someone politely questioning/challenging.
Also, I am a member of the church. And we have been more involved - we repented to the whole church a while back. As we got involved we began to address some of the concerns which had previously held us back.
You are right, the pastor is God's concern, but the people under him are being decieved in a big way.
I can't say any more. You are just going to have to take my word that this is a big deal - not merely a doctrinal difference.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 5:46:29 PM
|
|
|
GregandJenny
Posts: 615
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: offline
|
quote:
No - it is not a doctrinal issue - it is a clear morality issue. And don't worry about being frank - although you are missing the point.
can you explain this to me?
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 7:24:20 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
No - it is not a doctrinal issue - it is a clear morality issue. And don't worry about being frank - although you are missing the point.
Now I am confused; twice you stated that it was a teaching issue (which would be doctrinal), and no you say it is a clear morality issue.
There are many sincere folks here that would be glad to help if you would just be open about what you percienve the problem to be.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/14/2008 10:45:11 PM
|
|
|
pbaribeault
Posts: 1041
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline
|
It seems to be that he is teaching that something clearly immoral/sinful is OK for Christians, because 'everybody' does it these days.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/15/2008 8:38:37 PM
|
|
|
Dancre
Posts: 1264
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
Is this what you mean? Is he teaching something like it's ok for two single people to live together and have sex? Or homosexuality is ok? Is it that extreme? Or is it more like he prays in tongues and I don't like it sort of stuff? It would be easier if you just said he teaches sin is ok or something like that. Sorry, I can't just 'take your word for it'. As RC said, if you want advice you need to be truthful.
quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
It seems to be that he is teaching that something clearly immoral/sinful is OK for Christians, because 'everybody' does it these days.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/16/2008 9:10:15 AM
|
|
|
HenriettasCat
Posts: 217
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
|
Yes it is that extreme. He has personally told us that he does not believe it to be sin. Behind closed doors he is telling couples to carry on even allowing them to be ministry and leadership. People we thought were married are not married - that kind of thing. - Sorry if I've been too vague - I'm just trying to hold on to my emotions here and not go overboard with a public rant.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/16/2008 10:26:26 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5660
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: HenriettasCat
Yes it is that extreme. He has personally told us that he does not believe it to be sin. Behind closed doors he is telling couples to carry on even allowing them to be ministry and leadership. People we thought were married are not married - that kind of thing. - Sorry if I've been too vague - I'm just trying to hold on to my emotions here and not go overboard with a public rant.
What denomination are you with HenriettasCat?
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: When a leader is in error - 9/16/2008 10:38:35 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4100
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
I am absolutely amazed (in a negative way, shocked) that you asked for a scriptural approach and so far I have not seen any scriptural quotes at all.
There is the passage in Matt 18, but that is for people of lateral relationship, and does not work as well in bringing an accusation against someone in leadership.
Mat 18:15 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Mat 18:16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
Mat 18:17 "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
Paul writes this:
1Ti 5:19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.
I think this verse is a better fit.
Do not go on this alone, but with other witnesses.
Make a log of what you know. Be as detailed as possible. If you heard the pastor say that he approved of unmarried couples having sex, write down what he said and the date, what the circumstances were, etc.
Explain from scripture why this is wrong. Be detailed.
Have the others corroborate the facts as well.
Depending on the structure of your denomination, you can go to the congregational board (if they have the authority over the pastorate) or the denominational office. Present your case (all of you together).
Then leave it in their hands. If corrective action is taken, great. If not, find another congregation.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
