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What does it mean to be gothic? - 7/27/2008 7:20:19 PM
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slimon11
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What is the meaning behind the style? When a person describes themselves as "gothic," what does that mean?
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 7/27/2008 7:49:49 PM
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slushie
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Depressed and pessimistic.
"I want to be different. I want to stand out."
Tends to be very moody, and rebellious. They want to be different and they try to stand out by their attitude (morbidity) and the way they dress. They can be rather morbid and pessimistic... and sometimes rather self-destructive.
Excerpt from wikipedia article:
quote:
Goth fashion can be recognized by its stark black clothing (or hair or makeup), often contrasted with boldly colored clothing, hair and makeup in strong shades of deep reds, purples, blues or emerald green, in fabrics and styles that evoke romantic eras as well as morbidity, that usually combine style elements that flow and drape as well as restrict or emphasize and sexualize a body part (i.e. corsetry or tight sleeves or trousers). Goth fashion further emphasizes the personal power of an individual, as the calculated juxtapositions of elements of the rugged accessories (i.e. metallic and leather), to that of the vulnerable, fragile and sensual restriction of body parts (i.e. lace, silks, and high heels for either gender). Like other fashions that embrace elaborate fashion choices and rules, goth fashion elicits attention from others, both goth or non-goth.
I'd say that basically they want attention. They want people to look at them. They want to have some sort of control over themselves and their lives. Who doesn't want to be unique?
I knew a few goths. I guess... something like this. I may or may not be right.
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 7/27/2008 8:05:24 PM
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colliefan
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Want to "fit in" by "not-fitting-in"; same as the hippies of the sixties and the "gansta" look of the ghetto.
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 7/27/2008 9:20:08 PM
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slushie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Want to "fit in" by "not-fitting-in"; same as the hippies of the sixties and the "gansta" look of the ghetto.
True.
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 7/27/2008 11:01:12 PM
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fallenstar
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Goth is just a lable. Remember that. It's all about lifestyle and personality, the clothing part does'nt matter to Goths who are out of school. I was a die hard "Goth" in high school, so here goes.
An obsession with movies, books, music or TV shows and movies that have ghosts,vampires, demons, occult-ish material and supernatural themes.
Heavy metal music. bands like HIM (His Infernal Majesty) KoRn, Six Feet Under, and artists like Mariyln Manson and Ozzy Osbourn
Clothing is usually black, with chains or outlandish prints. Band T-shirts, spikes, anything dark or otherworldly. (It's the personality that makes a true Goth.)
Either is Bisexual, Gay, or supports Homosexuality.
Rebellious against religon. Most Goths are Occult or Athiest, but I have met Christian Goths who can pull it off.
Write music, poetry and short stories\fan fictions. Goths are very artistic, and somtimes dislike sports and competitve activites.
Enoys to be scared by creepy books and movies, and for that reason loves halloween.
To me, the Gothic lifestyle was somthing I grew out of when I got out of college. I still love supernatural books and movies!
I did forget to mention that the things listed above are the traits I had when I was in middle- high school. You don't have to have all the above things in common to be a Goth-it's just a lable. It does'nt mean anything.
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 7/28/2008 5:22:33 AM
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mvic
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I always thought it meant looking like a Gothic building !!!
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 3:45:20 PM
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GothicXian
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Goths really don't listen to heavy metal music, Korn, Ozzy, Six Feet Under etc etc etc. we listen to goth rock; also we don't dress for "attention's sake" I mean c'mon! wikipedia said that goth fashion alone attracts attention (but thats NOT why we dress so), thats just shallow. Also ask any goth what he or she thinks of Marilyn Manson and they're probably tell you they hate him (for a number of reasons), Also what's so wrong with being rebellious toward religion in general? I'm not "relgiious" I'm Christian. Also not all goths are bi or gay, (infact most won't admit to being gay just bi, but that's besides the point). Alot of what fallenstar has said is shallow at best and uninformed at most (no offense to you but honestly what scene were in?). Now as for the statement of "Depressed and pessimistic" that's just horrible shallow; no goth is "depressed", and as for being pessimistic; not really just cynical or pragmatical. Again what's wrong with that? Moody, yes. Rebellious? Depends on what you mean by "rebellious", the little 14 year olds going to hot topic buying knitted half-fingered gloves, thinking they're anti-conformiity? Yeah that's REEEEAL rebellion. (rolls eyes). Yes I'm being quite moody right now cause I'm so fed up with people's attempts to shake "labels" even though they know next to nothing (and will often admit to it) about a particular subculture of people and such. Bottomline, if you wanna know about a group of people try resarching some of the goth sites around the web go to coffeeshops and look for guys and girls in victorian clothes smoking cloves (I do) and ask them about their subculture. Easy as that.
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"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 3:48:52 PM
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slushie
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You seem awfully defensive, GothicXian.
I've known goths who have been VERY depressed and pessimistic, and they chose the look and everything because they honestly WANTED the attention.
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:04:42 PM
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GothicXian
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Exactly; then they weren't really part of the scene as a whole they were merely in it for the fashion and "supposed" out pouring of negative emotion that goths "tend" to give off (in other words completely oblivious to some really nice people; good music and a good healthy outlet for their depression). They merely wanted the attention as a way of feeling better about themselves when really they need friends not attention (there's a definate difference).
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:14:00 PM
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slushie
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So the Gothic scene itself is not simply an attitude? So what exactly IS the Gothic scene all about? You've given a lot about what it's not like. Why do people actually join it in the first place?
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:20:42 PM
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GothicXian
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Well the goth scene is basically one composed of music, fashion (many different styles), community; that's about it there's no political or social statement we try to make (that would make the goth scene into a movement; like the hippie or punk movements). It's not a "religion" or pseudo-religion (I've heard some people say it is but they have no idea what they're talking about). Within the scene are many kinds of likes and dislikes not all goths share the same views. stances or tastes. But what unites us is our love of the theatrical, dark and at times macabre. There are some (not very close to the scene that would tell you attitude is all that counts or that its a lifestyle; both are rather wrong and miss the point). I've been in the scene for about 5 years now. So if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:22:57 PM
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slushie
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Thanks. So the people you know - have they joined mainly for the music and fashion, or have some joined just to project some sort of attitude?
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:31:44 PM
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Liveloved
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It means they are longing to belong, to be noticed, and to be significant . They are looking for love.
It means they need Jesus.
It means they are seeking an identity through a way of dress, a look, a mindset, etc.
It means that they are just like us.
It means they need our love and our prayers.
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:34:09 PM
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slushie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
It means they are seeking an identity through a way of dress, a look, a mindset, etc.
Another thing, GothicXian... have you ever known any other "Christian goths" besides yourself?
Do you think that the above statement is true for the people you have known?
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:34:35 PM
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GothicXian
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Never for the "attitude", if you go into Spencer's or Hot Topic in the mall they place so much emphasis on "attitude" and thinking "black is bad" etc etc etc. its ANNOYING sure goth is "rebellious" but not in the way most people think. That's merely a 1 diminsional stereotype of a subculture. People "join" the goth scene for a number of reasons (not really for attitude purposes; that's what teens think will make their parents mad) they go to it for "dark and scary" atmosphere. When really most of the goths I know have found it as a way to express their interests in life. Most people in the goth scene had some sort of dark leaning or like (from dark fiction or poetry to clothes) not at all for the "attitude to be dark", Like myself I loved learning about cults and the human condtion (fallen and in need of a Savior) I was and am a Christian but I studied the goth subculture and found it was a place I could very much be myself.
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:43:14 PM
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slushie
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Isn't the scene kind of morbid?
"Dark and scary"? In what way dark and scary?
Rebellious in what way?
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/2/2008 4:51:34 PM
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GothicXian
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Yes the goth scene is dark, and we do focus on allot of things; however I was only saying "dark and scary" in the sense that most teenagers who are trying to make their parents mad or upset go to the goth scene because they "think" its all about rebellion and outlandish makeup, piercings and whatnot. When really that's a very shallow and stereotypical view of the scene.
_____________________________
"I believe that true christianity has nothing to do with man made
doctrine. I do believe, that understanding and following the teaching
of Christ is teaching for life. It’s not about the country club which they
created.” - Eric Clayton
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/3/2008 12:22:53 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GothicXian
Yes the goth scene is dark, and we do focus on allot of things; however I was only saying "dark and scary" in the sense that most teenagers who are trying to make their parents mad or upset go to the goth scene because they "think" its all about rebellion and outlandish makeup, piercings and whatnot. When really that's a very shallow and stereotypical view of the scene.
Why on earth would a Christian want to look dark and scary.
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"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/4/2008 12:45:25 AM
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slimon11
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GothicXian, Thanks for sharing. Like others, I thought there was some sort of religion or spirituality associated with scene. It is great that there are gothic Christians! I think we are able to best minister to those who have something in common with us.
Just like a Christian who has struggled with drug addiction will most likely be good at minstering to non-believing drug addicts, or a rich Christian good at witnessing to other rich people; a Gothic Christian would be good at witnessing to gothic non-Christians, especailly better than someone that may have misconceptions about the scene. I think it is great that He puts Christians in all cultures.
Oh, and great post Livedloved.
< Message edited by slimon11 -- 8/4/2008 1:10:06 AM >
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/4/2008 2:45:26 AM
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OneJohn410
Posts: 395
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quote:
THE original questions: What is the meaning behind the style? When a person describes themselves as "gothic," what does that mean?
There's been a lot said, I hope I do justice to it all. I'm not going to chop sentences, just condense and get it all together.
quote:
ORIGINAL: GothicXian
(Goths) listen to goth rock (music). Not all goths are bi or gay, (in fact most won't admit to being gay, just bi. No goth is "depressed", and as for being pessimistic; not really just cynical or pragmatical. Moody, yes. Look for guys and girls in victorian clothes smoking cloves (I do) and ask them about their subculture.
Well the goth scene is basically one composed of music, fashion (many different styles), community; that's about it there's no political or social statement we try to make (that would make the goth scene into a movement; like the hippie or punk movements). Within the scene are many kinds of likes and dislikes not all goths share the same views, stances or tastes. But what unites us is our love of the theatrical, dark and at times macabre. There are some (not very close to the scene that would tell you attitude is all that counts or that its a lifestyle; both are rather wrong and miss the point). I've been in the scene for about 5 years now.
Sure goth is "rebellious" but not in the way most people think. That's merely a 1 diminsional stereotype of a subculture. People "join" the goth scene for a number of reasons (not really for attitude purposes; that's what teens think will make their parents mad) they go to it for "dark and scary" atmosphere. When really most of the goths I know have found it as a way to express their interests in life. Most people in the goth scene had some sort of dark leaning or like (from dark fiction or poetry to clothes) not at all for the "attitude to be dark", Like myself I loved learning about cults and the human condtion (fallen and in need of a Savior) I was and am a Christian but I studied the goth subculture and found it was a place I could very much be myself.
Yes the goth scene is dark, and we do focus on allot of things; however I was only saying "dark and scary" in the sense that most teenagers who are trying to make their parents mad or upset go to the goth scene because they "think" its all about rebellion and outlandish makeup, piercings and whatnot. When really that's a very shallow and stereotypical view of the scene.
What does it mean to be Gothic?
You've got your own type of rock music. There's no set sexual orientation. No depression, though moodiness is common. There's no set views. No specific statement being made. No set likes or dislikes. United in love of the theatrical, dark and at times macabre. There a type of joy in fooling the teenagers as to what y'all are actually all about.
What is the meaning behind the style?
Victorian clothing, a pipe or roll of cloves for smoking, many different styles.
Hi GothicXian,
There was a question about the style and the meaning behind it. It sounded to me like a true Goth would be shopping out of a catalog for clothes, or designing their own vs. buying them in the trinket shop in the mall. Is that a fair statement? I've seen some really intentional dress before that looks like it took a good while to accomplish. Is there a ho-hum weekday look and then a no-holds barred weekend look for Goths? The mousse-spiked hair, all the accessories... that's got to take some time. I know it's part of being part of the culture, but still.
Have you found it easily possible to talk to others for any great period of time who are 'non-Goth', and felt you were being taken seriously and that they could talk to you in seriousness- no matter how Goth your dress was that day? Just wondering if that's a major challenge in being a Goth 24/7, as I assume you are not just Jack Q. Public by day and a big brother(?) to your clan(?) only at night?
I've got to admit, I'd never think to try smoking cloves, or watching much maccabre or dark theater, but if you were downwind of me for the most part, and didn't look like you were out to vent some rage or take my wallet, It'd be cool shooting some hoop with you, or getting some food somewhere.
Thanks for playing 50 questions with enquiring minds.
OneJohn410
_____________________________
"Trust in the Lord, and do good; Dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness. Delight yourself in the Lord; And He will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord, trust also in Him, and He will do it." Psalm 37:3-5
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/4/2008 9:41:59 AM
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revbob4God
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quote:
Yes the goth scene is dark, and we do focus on allot of things; however I was only saying "dark and scary" in the sense that most teenagers who are trying to make their parents mad or upset go to the goth scene because they "think" its all about rebellion and outlandish makeup, piercings and whatnot. When really that's a very shallow and stereotypical view of the scene.
Welcome to forums. You seem to be very caring and I appreciate your posts as I always have interest in the needs, feelings and outlooks of our young people
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For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/4/2008 10:07:02 AM
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sunshine4God
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My best buddy could easily be described as a goth,however she says she is not and gets very upset if called one. When she was a kid she wasn't alowed to wear whatever she wanted,was only allowed to listen to certain kinds of music mostly worship,and pretty much sheltered from alot.Now that her Mom has loosened up I think she is rebelling by wearing lots of black,listening to stuff like Him and Avenged Sevenfold,and etc,and She loves skulls. I love her just as she is and think and hope it is just a phase she is going through. She has changed so much within just a couple years and I miss who she once was.
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"Let your light so shine before men that they will see
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Its me!
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/4/2008 12:58:33 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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wearing goth clothes and going to places goths enjoy, like the goth nightclubs, is an escape.
Just try going from your nice 3 piece suit (for men) or from your Chanel business suit (for women) from your nice day at the office or at the fast food restaurant where you are employed, and then go from that to wearing black color goth clothing, boots, torn fishnet stockings, leather lace, the heavier makeup, etc.. and then see how it makes you feel. (or just imagine it, as I'm not saying you shoudl go off and do that, as I came out of a very similar scene, and I would not go back. The Lord delivered me from that scene.
its an escape to become another kind of person for the night.
its a whole 'nother atmosphere.
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I will extol Thee, my God, O King, and I will bless Thy name forever and ever. Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised, and His greatness is unsearchable" (Psalm 145: 1 & 3)
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RE: What does it mean to be gothic? - 8/4/2008 1:25:58 PM
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Darion412
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quote:
Why on earth would a Christian want to look dark and scary.
I'm not exactly sure why. I know there are some hardcore Christian bands that dress/look dark based on their genre.
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