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Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 4:37:13 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
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quote:
Domestic Violence within the Church: The Ugly Truth
Chuck Colson - BreakPoint
EDITOR'S NOTE: October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month.
A woman I'll call "Marleen" went to her pastor for help. "My husband is abusing me," she told him. "Last week he knocked me down and kicked me. He broke one of my ribs."
Marleen's pastor was sympathetic. He prayed with Marleen—and then he sent her home. "Try to be more submissive," he advised. "After all, your husband is your spiritual head."
Two weeks later, Marleen was dead—killed by an abusive husband. Her church could not believe it. Marleen's husband was a Sunday school teacher and a deacon. How could he have done such a thing?
Tragically, studies reveal that spousal abuse is just as common within the evangelical churches as anywhere else. This means that about 25 percent of Christian homes witness abuse of some kind.
These numbers may shock you—and they certainly shocked me—so you may be wondering if the studies were done by secular researchers hostile to the church. I can assure you, sadly, they were not.
Denise George, a gifted writer and the wife of theologian Timothy George, has published a new book called What Women Wish Pastors Knew. "Spouse abuse shocks us," George writes. "We just cannot believe that a church deacon or member goes home after worship . . . and beats his wife." Tragically, however, George notes, some of these men justify their violence "by citing biblical passages."
Read the rest of Domestic Violence within the Church: The Ugly Truth
I saw this in the article...
"Astonishingly, 50 percent said women should be willing to "tolerate some level of violence" because it is better than divorce."
How willing are you to put up with violence in the home? Why?
_____________________________
Fred "Fritz" Alberti
Director of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 4:45:24 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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Absolutely none, nada, zip, zilch. Why? Because my mother was horribly abused by her first husband. It nearly destroyed her in so many ways including becoming abusive herself. The atmosphere violence causes in a home is horrible. No matter who is being abused, everyone suffers. The ramifications can last for generations.
To me, the church has a lot to answer for in this. For decades women were told stay, pray,obey and everything will be okay. I wonder how many women and children suffered more abuse even death from that adivce. Sadly, I have seen many times on this forum where women are still told this by their clergy. It is tragic. If a woman cannot turn to the church for help, then who is she supposed to turn to for help.
Karen
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 4:49:49 PM
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mrtigger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
How willing are you to put up with violence in the home? Why?
Absolutely none.
_____________________________
mr tigger
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 4:50:38 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1451
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I wouldnt put up with any physical or sexual violence either to me or my children. I would definately divorce (and have) after this happened. To allow your spouse to either harm you or your chidlren is wrong but sadly many women do this even if their kids are being abused, Unbelievable.
Some are too scared to be alone, or to have to manage as a single parent, but what is more important, your kids being in a safe and loving environment or your fears of "how will I manage"or " I cant bear to be alone"?
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 5:23:31 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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quote:
How willing are you to put up with violence in the home? Why?
Absolutely none.
_____________________________
Ryanne- trying hard to be my husband's girlfriend and my daughter's mother.
I'll keep my guns, freedom, and money- you can keep "the change."
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 5:24:31 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2537
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I had put up with violence because I was taught that divorce was never allowed and I should always forgive and forget. Wonderful friends loved me but didn't think it was their place to tell me to move out. Some did tell my then husband to behave better. I guess I was being a great long suffering faithful wife to put up with such stuff. He never broke any ribs. I did have to hide bruises. He never went after our daughter but she feared for me as she reached her teens.
I won't go into anymore details, but I think too many of us have been taught that forgiveness = putting up with.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 5:38:42 PM
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his_chosen
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Been there, done that. When it got to that point, I had already dealt with years of verbal abuse. I wasn't worthy of anything better. When he dislocated my jaw I did leave, only because I was afraid what would happen to the kids. I had no where else to go, so I went back home. A few days later, I talked with a pastor, explaining what had happened. THe pastor asked me if it really was that bad or if I was making it up. When dh threatened to kill on of the kids, someone finally spoke up for me and dh had to move out. A few years later, he did hurt one of the kids. The next day there was a kids event at church. I showed another pastor what had happened. The pastor decided to do nothing, rather wait until dh said something. Uh, pastors are mandatory reporters.
When you get no support from the church, it's hard to stand up for yourself.
_____________________________
You have a choice. You can throw in the towel or you can use it to wipe the sweat off your face.
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 5:49:45 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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Car2ner and his_chosen, your stories just break my heart. Sadly, they are not as uncommon as we like to think. I see so many in the church rail against feminism, government intervention (as with cps), strong woman breaking up the home, and I just want to puke. Many times the very situations that they are whining and complaining about have come about because of the church's failure to act. Pastor's don't want to get involved. Deacons don't really think it is any of their business. And on and on. I personally think they need to man up and do something.
I am not speaking in generalities. I know so awesome leaders in the church, both men and women, that would put their own lives in danger to stop this sort of thing. They are willing to risk embarrassment and possibly be ostracized for getting involved in things that many just don't want to talk about. They are heros and we need more of them. I hope that when I am in that situation, because I doubt it will be if, I will choose to be a hero.
Karen
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 6:50:45 PM
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NotDoneYet
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After my now ex-husband chased us out of our home at gunpoint, I went to my priest who told me that if I was more "submissive" he wouldn't have done that. If I had taught my children to obey better, he wouldn't have beaten my kids. I was told to go "home" and apologize for my bad behavior and pray that he'd take me and the children back. My kids and I lived in a mini-van...
By the way, this was a church that I had been an active member of, my children attended the church school, etc.
I've seen it over and over since then...if your husband beats you it's because you aren't submissive enough. Men learn that a woman's "submission" means that he RULES the home. The preach plenty about "wives submit to your husbands" but never enough about "husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church"....
It's sanctioned, it's allowed, and it goes on more than many know. And, no, the churches will not get involved...it's horrible, and yet it goes on.
_____________________________
Remember, normal is just a setting on the dryer!
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 7:27:00 PM
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stamper_ben
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From the article: quote:
The amount of domestic abuse in Christian homes is horrifying, and the church ought to be doing something about it—not leaving the problem to secular agencies. But this is one mission field where the church is largely missing in action. And sometimes pastors, albeit with good intentions, do more harm than good.
George sites a survey in which nearly 6,000 pastors were asked how they would counsel women who came to them for help with domestic violence. Twenty-six percent would counsel them the same way Marleen's pastor did: to continue to "submit" to her husband, no matter what. Twenty-five percent told wives the abuse was their own fault—for failing to submit in the first place. Astonishingly, 50 percent said women should be willing to "tolerate some level of violence" because it is better than divorce. And many wonder why the church as a whole is in such sad shape today.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 7:52:59 PM
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hnt
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I remember feeling I was lied to when dealing with this issues. Grew up in the church, and being told that you can always depend on your church family. That was one of the deepest pits of despair I ever encountered.
I have to admit I'm glad people are actually talking about it now. Less than 10 years ago? It never would have been. I remember a pastor on this board when I asked WHY they don't said to me, "We don't deal with such social ills". I was just amazed.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 8:01:32 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2218
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
Absolutely none, nada, zip, zilch. Why? Because my mother was horribly abused by her first husband. It nearly destroyed her in so many ways including becoming abusive herself. The atmosphere violence causes in a home is horrible. No matter who is being abused, everyone suffers.
Ditto. My parents should have gone to prison for what they did to us kids, and I have a sibling who has surpassed my father in violence.
When I was engaged, I told my husband on no uncertain terms what behavior he could expect from me if he ever cheated on me or hit me. Odd that I was the first person in my family to "get it" about how unacceptable violence was and yet never needed to defend myself because my husband isn't violent or abusive (thank You, God!). I have passed on to my kid that violence is totally unacceptable, and separation for safety is the first step out. Not divorce, but a safety zone.
quote:
I think too many of us have been taught that forgiveness = putting up with.
I remember my mother weeping in prayer on her knees, begging God to help her forgive my father for having just beaten her (he smugly thought his actions were fully justified). It seriously messed up my perception of who God was for a long time.
_____________________________
"Through Gates of Splendor" by Elizabeth Elliot
"Federal Husband" by Doug Wilson
www.biblegateway.com for online concordance (I use it daily)
"Passion and Purity" by Elizabeth Elliot
And I think chickens are really funny
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 8:37:01 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2218
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Let's get down to brass tacks:
Violence is sin.
It is lack of love, it is selfishness, God condemns it, it is getting something selfish man's way (by the flesh) instead loving others God's way (in the Spirit).
Genesis 6:11
The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
Exodus 21:12
[ The Law Concerning Violence ] “He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.
2 Samuel 22:3
The God of my strength, in whom I will trust;My shield and the horn of my salvation, My stronghold and my refuge; My Savior, You save me from violence.
Psalm 11:5
The LORD tests the righteous,But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Proverbs 21:7
The violence of the wicked will destroy them, Because they refuse to do justice.
Go to www.biblegateway.com and type in the word "violence." Also look at strike, striker, and so on. The Bible is not silent about this, so the Church had better not be, either.
_____________________________
"Through Gates of Splendor" by Elizabeth Elliot
"Federal Husband" by Doug Wilson
www.biblegateway.com for online concordance (I use it daily)
"Passion and Purity" by Elizabeth Elliot
And I think chickens are really funny
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 8:50:43 PM
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herestoresmysoul
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I have never actually heard of any Christian leader tell a women to stay with an abusive husband. I have never heard any teaching to that affect either.I am from the UK. Could that be why? Certainly doesn't seem to be taught here.
The only time that I have heard anything was on a teaching on divorce where the pastor said that in these circumstances the lady (or man if he was being abused) should seperate and stay that way until definate help was sought and obtained, and she should not return until the abuser was changed and repentant. If he wasnt then she shouldnt return.
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 8:52:13 PM
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garsyt
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There is no room for domestic violence of any kind in my home and I've been blessed with a husband that has never raised his voice or his hand to me.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/28/2009 9:46:04 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 804
Joined: 11/21/2007
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Herestoresmysoul, it is not that it is taught over here but rather an apathy or an unwillingness to get involved. People don't like to get involved with messy stuff.
I am very blessed to attend a church that emphasizes the other part of the submission verse. Like our pastor said, "Guys, she is called to submit but you are called to do a whole lot more." I would hope that he would privately take the same stand and not allow abuse to continue within the church but he is still somewhat new so I am not sure as of yet. I believe he would be a stand up man.
Karen
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/29/2009 3:01:31 AM
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Anon101
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I was seriously scared of my husband the first year of our marriage. He never punched me or struck me, it was the verbal threats, new household "rules", and his rage that scared me.
I grew up with a dad who had a horrible temper. I got used to that explosive type of temper at an early age. I know for me, I thought I deserved it somehow. My dad was/is a born again Christian, too.
Also, I didn't consider the rage, constant insults and name-calling, abuse. When I told my husband he was being abusive he just laughed and said "I'm abusing you? Where are your bruises?"
Verbal abuse turns into physical abuse when loss of control over ones anger is tolerated. I know for us it kept getting closer to the physical point. He'd rage at me and so I started to give it back to him, which was wrong. I was the first one to actually hit unfortunately. I hit him with my slipper on his arm after his words hit way below the belt. I know I was wrong and I never ever want to to it again. I think words hurt more than the physical wounds. A bruise heals but horrible words can cut your heart up into little pieces.
My husband is seeing a counselor now. The counselor put him on meds. He rages a lot less, now. The scars are still with me, though. So, now I need to go to a good Godly counselor to help me forgive and learn to love again.
I have found a huge lack of help in the counseling area at church. The counselors have no personal experience in the area or they are just lay people willing to listen. Giving someone bad advice like "just go home a be subservient to your husband" is something I've been told, too. I wish the body of Christ and churches would get real and realize that sin still occurs within the church even though we are Christians. We don't like to admit it but we are all still plagued with this ugly thing called sin. Just because you become a Christian doesn't mean you are cured of all of your sin. Not dealing with it and throwing scripture and a bunch of rules at people without helping them in a more tangible way is basically doing what the Pharisees did in Christ's time.
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/29/2009 3:11:29 AM
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Anon101
Posts: 181
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quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
I have never actually heard of any Christian leader tell a women to stay with an abusive husband. I have never heard any teaching to that affect either.I am from the UK. Could that be why? Certainly doesn't seem to be taught here.
The only time that I have heard anything was on a teaching on divorce where the pastor said that in these circumstances the lady (or man if he was being abused) should seperate and stay that way until definate help was sought and obtained, and she should not return until the abuser was changed and repentant. If he wasnt then she shouldnt return.
I think it may be more of an American thing. I know personally that within the Assembly of God and Pentecostal churches I've attended, you stay in your marriage and listen to your husband. He is the spiritual head of the household, bottom line. What is not taught or what I don't hear a lot of it the other part of the scripture where Christ tells us that a man is to love his wife like Christ loved the church. Christ DIED for us, so a man is supposed to love his wife enough to be willing to die for her. That is quite a command, IMO.
The second part of the Lord's commandment on marriage is just as important as the first, yet it is not taught or brought up as much.
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RE: Violence in the Home - 10/29/2009 6:45:23 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2537
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I was never told to be more submissive. I think that my church family simply didn't know how to handle it. Aside from taking my then-husband aside and talking to him, they didn't know what else to do.
I had tried seperations, three in fact. Issues reached a head and I filed for divorce. It was then I got many comments that boiled down to "it's about time. We don't know how you managed to stay in this marriage as long as you did. You did everything you could to make it work." etc. It almost hurt to hear some of that stuff because even after divorcing, I still did not want to bad mouth my ex.
I now attend services on a military post and the chaplines are being trained for issues, like violence and depression, suicide and those messy issues that most people feel helpless about.
< Message edited by car2ner -- 10/29/2009 6:51:25 AM >
_____________________________
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http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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