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Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/6/2007 12:41:06 PM
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selahgirl
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Aware of Him
Book of John (1:1-2)
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
So many people want to go back to the beginning of all things and theorize about how it all started. But here is the answer, almost too simply put to comprehend. The Word was the beginning. It was just… there… like it always had been, and suddenly we were aware of it. Perhaps, that is the heart of the matter, the key to understanding the origin of all things. Perhaps, it's not a matter of where or when things began; but rather, the Beginning is merely when God thought us into existence and made us aware.
Here was the Word:
1) It was with God
2) It was God
3) The Word is a He (a specific person... I'll get to verse 17).
4) God consists of more than one person
(or else how could the Word be Him and be with Him?)
5) God existed before the beginning of anything finite as we know it.
6) Therefore God is infinite.
7) Therefore the Beginning is, "when God thought of us and made himself known to us."
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/6/2007 12:48:33 PM
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selahgirl
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Spoken Light
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
The Word, whoever this person is (... I'll get to verse 17) -- this person that is God and that is with God… made all things as we know it. He was involved in the Creation of the World and Mankind. Not just part of it -- but all of it. He was key, one of the masterminds of the plan, his fingerprints were all over it and us. It was from his thoughts and voice that all things appeared from nothing. He was part of the Creator God.
In him was Life. He spoke creation into existence and that Life was imparted to dead matter. Living creatures took on his Life and it was a beautiful thing. The Word lit up all creation with his presence and with the knowledge that He loves us. We were born… suddenly we were in the world and aware of our God who loves us.
In verse 5, we see that in the beginning that Light shined into the darkness and Life appeared from nothing. Once again, as John records, the Light shines in the darkness. But the darkness of this world had fallen so deeply into sin, had moved so far from relationship with it's Creator (the Word), that it had no clue of who he was anymore. The world was so unlike him that it had no clue or understanding of this God that left them awestruck and dazzled by the brilliance of his person.
So here we are, each of us, trying to understand this God that we have moved so far away from. Trying to understand how we could possibly take on such beauty to resemble him at all, trying to understand why in his brilliance he would come to us and embrace us in a loving relationship. Why would he call us his family, his children, his bride, his beloved?
Here in the darkness we stand, full of wonder and amazement at the Word who has approached us once again simply to remind us that, "God loves you." That the Word has pursued us as we wandered off into the darkness. He brought the Light once again to point us toward Hope, toward Home, toward that place where we understood and embraced the one who gave us Life.
In the death and decay of sin, the Word speaks just as he did in the beginning. And our eyes are opened, all things are illuminated in the Light, and we are born again.
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/6/2007 6:45:02 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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Dude....... I love this. Althought it sounds like the illuminati, I will give your thinking its due. This is something of a philosophical matter, but I think it is a very valid point. We can argue about the actual timeline of human history (which secular science says is about 10,000 years, interestingly enough) but the fact being pointed to is that God already was and will always be. When was "the beginning" spoken of by John? The same beginning Moses referred to... in the Beginning, God created the heavens and the earth... however, John is more specifically referrencing the beginning of "the beginning". How do we know? Because the word must already exist before everything can be made through it. So Moses talks about the beginning as the creation of the world, and John talks about the beginning as eternity past before God created the earth... "In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God." So what you have is this somewhat spacey period known as "the beginning" where the Word was with God and being God, and that spacey period culminates with the definite creation of the world in Genesis 1:1. Much like the OT idea of the Day of the Lord, there is a larger period of time, that culminates in a single event (in the case of the Day of the Lord, the return of Christ to the planet). Thoughts?
Adam
PS, dang I love God.....
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/10/2007 2:24:21 AM
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Theo-Minor
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I've been thinking on this stuff myself most recently. It's nothing I could put into words, to be honest. Probably the same problem writers have had for centuries. How do you describe the indescribable?
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Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/11/2007 1:27:48 AM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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What a Shocker
(John 1:6-9)
"6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world."
Here is a man that was sent by God. Why? perhaps we will be told in the verses that follow. Either way, we know that he was a man, and that God chose him and sent him somewhere to accomplish something. And we know that if the Almighty God took the time to ask such a thing of someone, it must be important, and the heart and mind of God will go with the person sent -- and God will ensure his success, the message sent with this person would reach it's destination, and the purpose of it would be accomplished.
We are told that the name of the man that was sent was John. There are lots of men named John in the world. Which John? the disciple, the cousin of Jesus, former President Kennedy, John Reuben...
Verse 7 clues us in on what the message was that John was sent to deliver. He was supposed to testify, make a public statement, as to the nature and person of the Light. We are also told why it was so important that such a message be delivered, the purpose, the reason, what was to be accomplished... so that people would believe in the Light.
Verse 8 makes it clear, to avoid any confusion or false teaching or wild tangents of theology... John was NOT the Light. He was merely sent with a message, information about how to recognize the nature and person of the Light. What He would be like, how perfectly He would reflect the face and will of God... because He was and is God.
Verse 9 gives more specifics about the Light and about the message that John was to deliver about Him. John was sent to make a public statement of what the Light was like, what He would do, what the people needed to do to prepare themselves... the message was clearly an announcement that the Light was about to arrive. He was coming to the physical world as we know it, and would soon emerge on the scene and flood all things with a penetrating Truth that would illuminate the hearts of all men. So that they could see clearly how far they had wandered from the heart of God, and so they could know how much God was willing to do to make a way for them to return to the heart of God and to relationship with Him.
What a message...
It just kind of leaves you in shock. To grasp the extensive and all-encompassing plan and effort put into play by the Creator of all things, just so He could personally put a bus ticket in our hand so we could finally go back home. No more wandering, no more loneliness, no more hungering for family and thirsting for something real. No more searching, no more settling for things that have rotted, no more carrying that pack on our back crammed full of guilt and shame.
Finally...
a place to unshoulder the pack, to leave off ever having to carry it again. To be free, to be unshamed, to be held accountable, kept from wandering off and becoming lost again, to be protected and nurtured, to be accepted, to be loved.
yeah, that's pretty shocking.
that sounds like something that would require a divine plan to accomplish.
that sounds like something our Dad would do,
our friend,
our God
<3
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/11/2007 11:30:42 AM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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Glued Back Together
(John 1:10-13)
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.
Abraham, Kunta Kinte, George Washington... founding fathers, men deserving of great respect that founded movements and peoples because of their heart for family and a better future.
Here was the Creator of all, Father God, the Word, the Light, the One who accosted the darkness to free those that he loved who were locked inside of it. His motivation... Love, Family, the well-being and peace-of-mind of every ONE and everyone.
and yet...
No one recognized him, no one noticed him, no one cared, no one valued him, no one respected him or desired to know him. He was forgotten by those that he refused to forget, those that he refused to give up on. His love was perfect and passionate and relentless. He willingly (and without hesitation) poured out all of his glory and comfort, all that he is -- simply to ensure the freedom and joy of the ones that ignored and rejected his appearing.
Not everyone rejected him, not everyone ignored his love. Some chose to allow the spoken Word, the spoken Light to speak into their hearts and into their darkness. And to those that heard of his appearing and chose to believe it, who realized that the message was the opening of a door, he called them out of the darkness and into the Light, into his presence, into his nature and being and penetrating love. They were no longer dead, they were made aware again... alive again.
Born again, children of that Spoken Light, of God. Not because some preacher coerced them, not because some man got his wife pregnant, not because some woman seduced a guy with her beauty, not because some man forced himself upon a woman...
suddenly, they were conceived and born and alive because God said, "My child is dead... but I will give all so that they have the chance to live again." It was not the will or decision of a man that you were born, nor of a woman. Your parents, whatever the circumstance of your physical conception, did not decide to create you. They were instruments used to prepare a body for you...
Your conception began long before your parents encountered one another... your beginning was the moment that God first thought of you and said your name in the heavens, and suddenly you were born a spirit, a person, a being made in his image as his child. And he loved you. Then he prepared a body for you on this earth. So that you could have a part in reclaiming the blessings promised and planned for you and the family of God long ago.
He could take all the glory and do all the work, but it needed to be a family thing. It needed to be something that we all participated in for ourselves and for one another. That's the glue that makes real relationship real. That's the glue of family. We work as one, we sacrifice as one, we are victorious as one. That was Christ's prayer to his father (which we'll read later in the book of John) -- that we be one with God and with each other, just as Christ is one with the Father and the Spirit.
Real and Lasting and Fulfilling Life comes only from God.
And he offers it to you and to me at great cost to himself.
His only motivation?...
Love for Family
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/12/2007 12:38:54 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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Imagine for a Minute
(John 1:14)
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
This being, this Living Breathing Word, existed in some spiritual form that our finite minds are unable to wrap around. But suddenly, he focused himself and pin-pointed a body that had been prepared for himself on the earth -- and he somehow contained himself within it. All things infinite took on the earth suit of a man. You try to explain what that could have possibly looked like. It is beyond me.
While discussing the solar system with my children one time, I drew out the nine planets on the chalk board (dots that represented them that is. lol). I then drew several other solar systems in the vastness of space each with it's own sun. We talked of the billions and billions of stars and the solar systems that likely exist with most.
Then I drew spirals to represent galaxies, each containing countless solar systems. This created a great image of the great expanse. Then I commented on the fact that heaven is beyond all of that expanse, yet God exists in it all from there to here to all that is omnipresence. It was a very panoramic moment.
Suddenly, something miraculous occurred to me, and I began to share it with my children. Out here in the universe, standing at the edge of heaven, we suddenly journeyed back across the galaxies, across billions of stars and planets and solar systems. We journeyed back to our own solar system which now seemsed very tiny, back to the earth on which we live. And I talked about the tiniest speck on that dot as though it were a man standing there, so tiny on the face of the earth that it could not be drawn.
And we wondered together how a God that could fill the universe and heavens and the earth all at once could contain himself in that tiny speck of dust...
And we were humbled at the thought that he would go to such great lengths, journey so far, perform such a miraculous thing, just to become one of us. To stand beside us, to talk face to face with us, to explain that he had come so far just to shine Light (the message of his love) into the darkness. He had come to tell us that he loves us, and to show us the way out of the darkness.
He came with Truth, the Spirit of all that he is -- is Truth.
He came with Grace, the God-become-Man revealed himself as loving and merciful Savior. Who had come not to judge, but to free us from all shame and guilt and misery. He did not come to twist the knife of our lowliness and our unworthiness, rather he came to heal us and to restore us and to elevate us back into relationship and family with Him.
He didn't send someone to tell us. He came to tell us himself, right where we are. He didn't hesitate to get his hands dirty, to walk that road of great suffering, to live a lifetime in this rot and decay of a world. He took on all that is felt by a man, he knew loneliness and anger and dread and torture. He was met with injustice and cruelty and rejection.
He did it all just to speak to us. He, the Word, the Light, wanted to be sure that we understood how important it was that we hear what he had to say. He wasn't going to force us to listen or to trust him. He wanted us choose to love him back.
Can you imagine a man like that.
One that would travel the universe, literally...
One that would risk all, endure all, suffer all -- for you...
One that appeared in your life after you were cruel and rejected him
just to tell you one last time, "I love you so much. Let's start this thing over."
Just so he could give you every possible chance to realize what you're throwing away... so he could make one final appeal before giving you all that you said you wanted...
remember? ...how you said you wanted him to leave you alone... how you wanted to be separated from him for eternity, to never hear his voice again, to never see his face, to never be told that you are loved by the only voice that purely loves you, to never hear him speak into your life again... to never have to be annoyed by his presence ever again.
Be careful what you want.
Even if it breaks his heart and scars him on a cross,
He will give all to let you make that choice.
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/13/2007 1:35:37 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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Answer the Question
(John 1:15-18)
15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, "This is he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' ") 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only [Son], who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
John began to tell people all about this guy -- this God made into a living, breathing man walking around with us on the earth. He starts "crying out" -- that means he started publically declaring and explaining with passion and boldness for people to pay attention to this guy.
John had become a pretty popular teacher according to later writings, and he was letting people know that God had revealed to him that someone incredible was going to appear on the scene. Someone sent directly from God himself -- someone that God said would come.
Crowds of people, mulititudes, came out to hear John explain the things that God had spoken in his word and thru the prophets of old. Here was a nobody teaching about such things, and thousands of people rushed to hear him -- rather than to hear the church leaders of the day who were teaching the very same Scriptures. What was it about this less than average guy that caused people to crave to hear his teaching?
And yet, John delcares in this passage that there is someone who was going to appear on the scene very soon that would far surpass anything that John had spoken or taught them. He told them to get ready for it. To be watching and to prepare themselves to respond, because something amazing was about to happen, something holy, something consecrated and orchestrated by the very hand of God.
John continues by speaking of the grace contained in the giving of the law to Moses as a guide to people. He also speaks of the grace and truth and fullness of it all that was coming to them in person, God made flesh, God become man... and then for the first time, John names him by name... Jesus Christ.
He goes on to make it plain that Jesus Christ is God, so there would be no question about what he was saying. John explains that no one has ever seen God, except the Son who existed in the immediate presence of the Father from before the beginning. He emphasizes the closeness and unity of the relationship between Father and Son, to again make it plain that Jesus is God as is his Father.
Verse 18 closes by hinting at why Christ had journeyed to the earth, this place of darkness and decay and everything cursed.
No one had ever seen him, he was way up there in spiritual places, heavenly places, so far above us and removed from our awareness... and suddenly, here he is standing right in front of us as though he were one of us. Having borrowed a pair of our shoes, he tied the laces tightly, and set about to walk this mile with us. Not just the one, but how ever many it would take.
He wanted us to know him, that's why he came. To understand all that is in his heart. To realize that though he seemed so far away, he was here all along waiting for the moment that he could approach us face to face. Waiting for us to notice him, to hear what he wanted so desperately to say to us. To recieve all that he wanted to give us. To allow him to kill and cut loose that thing that held us in a death-grip and choked our joy.
This was that moment. He had waited a long time for it, he had prepared many things to bring it to pass. He had worked and managed and hovered over every detail to free us from everything so he could talk to us for one brief intimate moment.
There was something he wanted to ask us. There was a question that only we could answer. Something he needed to hear from our lips with his own ears. He wanted to spend forever with us, and he needed to know if we felt the same about him.
He had come to propose.
He had come to invite us into the most intimate and eternal of relationships.
He didn't come all this way just to stomp the devil, to prove a point, to flaunt his power and his kingly self and his kingdom....
He came for us.
He came for His Bride.
He came because he was compelled to not live another day without her.
He came because of his unwaivering love for you.
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/16/2007 7:39:14 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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John who?.....
(John 1:19)
19Now this was John's testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was.
So here is John. We asked earlier, John who? If we are to consider this testimony, then we need to have some kind of understanding of who is speaking. What is his integrity? What is his story? Why should we consider what he has to say? How did he end up as a key player at this pivotal moment of history?
Obviously, he was someone unique, someone that was able to appear in the rural areas and to cause the hearts of men to examine themselves before God. Not only to examine themselves inwardly but to actually get up and do something outwardly to show that something had seriously changed in them.
He was so charismatic, so convincing and thought-provoking in the things that he said and taught that word of him spread and crowds gathered. Naturally, the church leaders of the day are going to investigate this man, especially when their congregations are buzzing about him and his teachings.
Many in John’s day were curious about him, much like we are today. Who was this man? Some in his day had - no doubt - already heard about him before he was even born. His birth was foretold, and strange and miraculous events happened as his mother carried him during her pregnancy. Many wondered what kind of child this would be. What kind of man -- even tho his mother went into seclusion and the pregnancy was kept as quiet as possible.
And now here he was speaking with such passion, with such conviction, with such an anointing that cut thru the religion of the day straight to the hearts of men and women.
John was the cousin of Jesus.
To fully understand the connection and the miraculous events of his birth, we must divert to Luke, chapter 1. Luke was a physician who lived around or just after the time of Christ. He set about interviewing the people that had witnessed the events, and being the man of science and faith that he was, he wanted to record a factual record of all that happened. God inspired him, and the Holy Spirit led him to pen the most detailed of all the Gospels in Scripture. Here is what he said about the birth of John, cousin of Jesus.
(Luke 1:1-45, 56-66, 80)
1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, 2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.
(The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold)
5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron. 6Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly. 7But they had no children, because Elizabeth was barren; and they were both well along in years.
8Once when Zechariah's division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God, 9he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense. 10And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.
11Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. 14He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth. 16Many of the people of Israel will he bring back to the Lord their God. 17And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
18Zechariah asked the angel, "How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years."
19The angel answered, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. 20And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time."
21Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Zechariah and wondering why he stayed so long in the temple. 22When he came out, he could not speak to them. They realized he had seen a vision in the temple, for he kept making signs to them but remained unable to speak.
23When his time of service was completed, he returned home. 24After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion. 25"The Lord has done this for me," she said. "In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people."
The Birth of Jesus Foretold
26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
34"How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
35The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God. 36Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month. 37For nothing is impossible with God."
38"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her....
(Mary Visits Elizabeth)
56Mary stayed with Elizabeth for about three months and then returned home.
The Birth of John the Baptist
57When it was time for Elizabeth to have her baby, she gave birth to a son. 58Her neighbors and relatives heard that the Lord had shown her great mercy, and they shared her joy.
59On the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to name him after his father Zechariah, 60but his mother spoke up and said, "No! He is to be called John."
61They said to her, "There is no one among your relatives who has that name."
62Then they made signs to his father, to find out what he would like to name the child. 63He asked for a writing tablet, and to everyone's astonishment he wrote, "His name is John." 64Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue was loosed, and he began to speak, praising God. 65The neighbors were all filled with awe, and throughout the hill country of Judea people were talking about all these things. 66Everyone who heard this wondered about it, asking, "What then is this child going to be?" For the Lord's hand was with him.....
(Zechariah's Song)
80And the child grew and became strong in spirit; and he lived in the desert until he appeared publicly to Israel.
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< Message edited by selahgirl -- 9/16/2007 7:53:00 PM >
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/19/2007 2:41:46 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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the best man
(John 1:20-23)
20He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, "I am not the Christ."
I love that John was quick to point out that he was just as plain and average as any other man. That he was not the Christ, he was not the one who would represent God or the Messiah. Today in the church world, it seems that power and influence and fame have eaten up the integrity of many leaders and prophetic people and ministries. Any credit or glory added to a man's name is quickly grabbed like we were greedy dogs or something. God have mercy on us. May he open our eyes and teach us to discern between false humility for a show -- and true humbleness that zealously seeks the will of God above our own.
21They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."
It had been predicted that Elijah and/or Enoch or some other great prophet was to appear on the scene. The reasoning was that Scripture teaches, "Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment (Heb 9:27). It was believed that since Elijah and Enoch were taken to heaven in a chariot of fire and a whirlwind (escaping physical death) that they would return at some point. Because of the anointing that John seemed to carry as he taught the Scriptures, and the miraculous events surrounding his birth, some wondered if he was Elijah come back to earth.
Jesus alludes to this later in the Book of John. For now, the point is that John denied being any such great prophet or messiah. He kept himself as simple and as human as possible.
22Finally they said, "Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?"
23John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.' "
John knew his destiny and purpose. No doubt he spent much time in prayer and conversing with God as he sought direction for what he was to teach and preach. He didn't just appear in the wilderness and start affecting the hearts of men because he was zealous and simply decided to do it. No. Rather, he was born, and called, and trained, and destined to prepare the hearts of the people to be watching for the coming Messiah promised from the beginning... promised way back in Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."
John was the messenger that God said would be sent (Isaiah 40:2-3)
2 Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,
and proclaim to her
that her hard service has been completed,
that her sin has been paid for,
that she has received from the LORD's hand
double for all her sins.
3 A voice of one calling:
"In the desert prepare
the way for the LORD;
make straight in the wilderness
a highway for our God.
In the Jewish wedding ceremony, their was a huge celebration announcing the engagement/betrothal. The couple was considered as committed to one another as tho they were already married. The bridegroom would return to his father's house and prepare a home for them (either building a room onto the father's home or adding an apartment).
The bride would remain with her family constantly watching and waiting for the bridegroom to return to whisk her away for the wedding ceremony. She had to keep all her things packed and in a state of readiness, she had to keep herself groomed and in the right frame of mind.
Suddenly without warning, the bridegroom would send his best man and groomsmen ahead of him. They would sound the alarm and yell "the bridegroom is coming! the bridegroom is coming!" The Bride would have to drop everything, grab her things, and her procession would stand ready to meet the bridegroom who arrived just behind the groomsmen.
John the Baptist is like the best man. The guy who shouts the alarm that the BRIDEGROOM COMETH ^_^
He is quick to point out that he is not the bridegroom. He is merely the friend of the bridegroom who has been sent as the messenger. In so many ways, on a personal level we are to be like Christ. But here is a picture of where we should be like John the Baptist, in that we must never lose sight that we are mere messengers and friends. Jesus is the Bridegroom. He is the focus, the one worthy of praise, the one the world and the church waits for to deliver them and to enter into covenant with them for LIFE.
Allow me to get a little ahead of myself, as John himself expounds on this analogy later in the book of John.
28You yourselves can testify that I said, 'I am not the Christ but am sent ahead of him.' 29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must become greater; I must become less. (John 3:28-30)
No wonder Christ states that he loved this John so much <3
If only we could serve and love with such pureness of heart and complete devotion to Christ.
Help us Lord.
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/24/2007 2:01:51 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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Out of the Foxhole
(John 1:24-29)
24Now some Pharisees who had been sent 25questioned him, "Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?"
26"I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. 27He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie."
The church leaders were concerned about John because the people were moved by his teachings. He was teaching the Scripture, but there was something new in how he presented it. It was real and fresh and alive, no longer laws written in stone merely to impress and oppress. The Holy Spirit was stirring something in the hearts of men, he was drawing them to the heart of the law -- the heart of God -- and preparing them for Christ to set all things in order. The ground was being broken so the seed could take root in their hearts. It was the groundwork for a transformation from a dead faith to a LIVING faith.
John openly told them that there was someone among them, someone now on the earth, that was about to affect the world far more than he had. He was telling them that this person was about to be revealed, and that John's ministry was so much less important than His would be.
John was letting them know that not only was he unable to fill the shoes of the One that was coming, but he wasn't even worthy enough to touch His feet or to untie His shoes. John was trying to help them understand that the One who was coming was Messiah, the holy One, so much greater than himself that to even compare John to Him was crazy.
John understood that he wasn't worthy to bow at the feet of the One who was coming -- or to even serve him. He was humbled at being the one to announce His arrival, and he wanted to be sure that all glory remained His.
28This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
The next day after declaring that this person was among them, the man is revealed to John. In that moment, he shouts the declaration that defined his calling, the one thing he was sent to teach and preach and announce... the sacrifice had arrived, the time of cleansing and pardon and restoration had come. The fulfillment of the promise made in Gen 3 mentioned earlier had come to restore all. God had sent Him, and He was finally here among us. Immanuel.
It makes you wonder if the people who heard John make this declaration were a little confused by it. What did he mean that this man was the LAMB OF GOD, how could a man 'take away their sin?' The mindset was that a lamb from their herds was to be taken to the priests and offered up on the altar of God. And suddenly, this man walks up, the One that John had raved about for so long, and He is referred to as the Lamb of God. What might have flashed thru their minds in that moment...
It must have felt like quite a time of transition. It must have had an air of shakiness as the focus shifted from John to Jesus. For so long now, the people had flocked to the desert to hear John, to be baptized, to be a part of the movement.... and now suddenly the whole dynamic was changing and shifting. Perhaps that is a word for us today as well. Many of us find ourselves in a place of transition as the Church is entering into a new Phase. I wonder what great thing the Lord will lead us into next. Transition is a scary thing, but a necessary thing. No one can live in a foxhole forever -- who would want to?
Whatever He has planned... I know that it will only bring us one step closer to home <3
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/26/2007 7:39:23 AM
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selahgirl
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The Second Shout
(John 1:30-36)
30This is the one I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.'
When you think about it, John was born six months before Jesus... and John began to preach and teach before Jesus... yet here he is saying that Jesus was before him. Again, that clues us in on the fact that Jesus was God from BEFORE the beginning, before the creation. Just as we discussed earlier. He always was and will always be. Jesus did not suddenly exist when he was born as a baby in a manger.
31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel."
I'm not sure if John grew up knowing Jesus. I have many cousins that I have never met. So it could be that they had never actually met, though that is doubtful. I think this is referring more to the fact that John knew he was sent to announce that Messiah had arrived, but he wasn't told who it would be. He was following direction from God with the promise that Messiah would be revealed to all and that John would be the one to announce it -- if only he would speak and do all that God instructed. John's walk was no different than ours, his walk was one of Faith. God speaks to us all, with specific direction, and we each make our own choices as to what we will believe and to what extent we will obey. And God rewards us according to our faithfulness.
32Then John gave this testimony: "I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
John saw something in the spiritual realm. He saw something that was probably like an airy dove fly down from the heavens and rest upon Jesus. Such visions often occur like a dream, or something you see in your mind's eye (though sometimes they are seen with the physical eye as well). Sounds freaky to those that have never experienced such a thing, but it's really not so strange a thing in Scripture or in current times.
A dove is a gentle creature that lands gently and flutters about softly. It is symbolic of peace and gentleness, much like that nurturing spirit of a mother that warmly guides her children. Or like the gentle leading of a good shepherd. That is one of the personality traits of the Holy Spirit. He comes alongside of us and converses and communes with us like the most intimate friend or companion. Giving us advice and wisdom, reminding us of all that God has spoken, revealing what is true and right because He is the Spirit of Truth.
33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.' 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."
So here was John obeying and preaching in the desert, seemingly a little out of his mind, a rural country boy claiming that he had a fresh and urgent word from God. He is watching with anticipation waiting to see what God said he would see... the revelation of who Messiah would be.
John knew what it was to be baptized. He was dunking all kinds of people in the river. He knew what it was to encounter the Holy Spirit. He was conversing with Him personally and hearing directly from Him. Now, he is told that there is a baptism into the Holy Spirit.... a dunking, an immersion, a complete saturation of the Spirit of God upon a person. No wonder John was so zealous to obey -- such a baptism would be miraculous thing. John wanted to see such a miracle, so he obeyed all to the letter. He had gotten a taste of interacting with the Spirit of God and he wanted more.
35The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. 36When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!"
John had already declared this to the crowds, and no doubt had been preaching it and declaring it since the day before when it was revealed. Word had spread, people had already heard. As John said it this time, it was for a different purpose. The first time was to reveal Messiah, the second time was to direct the people and his disciples to begin to follow Jesus instead of himself. This becomes more evident in the verses that follow.
Many times I think people hear the first shout that reveals that Jesus is our Savior who has come to earth because of his great love for us. And they stop short. They never take the time to really hear that shout the second time, they never really consider that it's not enough to hear that Jesus came to earth to save us -- but each of us must make a decision to believe it -- to own it as Truth.
We often think that hearing something means we automatically believe it. But they are actually two separate acts. We can hear the Truth all day long, but whether we choose to believe it is another matter. We hear the shout as the Holy Spirit draws us to what is True. Then we must make the decision to follow Him. That is the moment that we truly become his disciple, his student, a follower, a believer, a Christian.
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 9/28/2007 11:53:25 AM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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If Only I Could See Him
(John 1:37-39)
37When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus.
Which two disciples?... verse 40 tells us that one of them was Andrew (the brother of Simon Peter). I'm not sure that the second disciple is ever identified. Perhaps, he was a follower, but not as committed. Or perhaps, he was just not among the twelve that were to be specifically called and mentioned. Either way, the focus remains upon the calling and listing of the twelve.
The other Gospels refer to John being imprisoned and beheaded before the twelve are actually called to follow Christ. Some people like to call that a contradiction within the Word, but we must remember that not all details are included in Scripture. As with any eyewitness account, only so many details can be given at any one moment by any one person. So John shares only what the Holy Spirit moved his heart to write as necessary parts of his testimony.
Perhaps some time (hours, days) passed from the time John made that second shout. Perhaps the two disciples began at that moment to shift their heart/focus to following Christ and only later made the physical transition after John was imprisoned. We will never know the exact details of how it happened until we are able to ask Christ face to face some day... But the fact of the matter is that it simply doesn't matter right now. All we need to know is that Christ began to gather the twelve men that were called for specific purpose during His ministry on this earth, and they chose to follow Him.
I find it interesting to ponder such gaps, but ridiculous to invest great amounts of time and energy debating theories that move no one closer to the Commission. It's worth a little investigation, but not worth a heated debate, imo.
38Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, "What do you want?"
I love so many things about these verses. I love that these two disciples began following behind Jesus as he walked along. They were drawn to him, but kept a bit of a distance, unsure if he would allow them to approach and follow him as disciples/students. The Holy Spirit had rested on Jesus at his baptism and immediately began it's ministry of drawing all men to the Christ. How cool is that?!
Jesus turns around and asks them what they want. He already knew I'm sure. He knew they were students of John, searching for the will and plan of God. He knew that they were wanting to learn from the one that John referred them to before he was imprisoned.
Every question Jesus asks or comment he makes carries a deeper meaning than just what appears on the surface. His thoughts are not like ours. He remains omniscient at all times, understanding that we are so limited in grasping all that He wants to say to us. So he asks a simple question that fits the moment and waits for us to understand the depth of what He is saying layer by layer.
"What do you want?" he asks the only two people in the crowd that followed Him that day.
"What do you want?" he continues to ask each of us today.
...They said, "Rabbi" (which means Teacher), "where are you staying?"
39"Come," he replied, "and you will see."
So they went and saw where he was staying, and spent that day with him. It was about the tenth hour.
I don't know what time of day the tenth hour was. I'm sure it holds some significance because God included it in the Scriptures. But at the moment, I find it something to google later. For now, my heart is so fixed and moved by the first part of this passage --
When the disciples asked where Jesus was staying, it was kind of like a child asking someone he admires... "can I go with you?" Jesus didn't answer the question by telling them what town he was from or whose house he was sleeping at. He understood what was in their heart, he took the time to pay attention to them and to discern/realize what they were actually asking. It didn't really matter where he was from or where he was going, they just wanted to know if they could hang out with him.
And so he responds by telling them to come with him and see. Perhaps, he meant so much more than just the fact that they would see where he was staying. Perhaps he meant something that they would only come to realize much later -- that they would see and understand the heart/plan of God. Perhaps it was a promise that the questions they hadn't even spoken yet, would be answered... that they would receive the insight they were craving and seeking of God... Perhaps they themselves didn't even get the depth of his response.
"Come and you will see," may have been all they heard in that moment, because they were clearly excited and relieved at not being rejected and sent away. It must have seemed like the answer they were hoping for, the acceptance they were seeking, the permission to be one of his students/disciples.
I just wonder if Christ saw the child-like innocence in their hearts, the openness and pureness of hungering to know the Truth, to truly search for and encounter God -- and it pleased Him. I wonder if He and the Spirit of God and the Father in heaven smiled to themselves as they thought ahead to the words Christ would speak in Matt 5...
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled...
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
.
< Message edited by selahgirl -- 9/28/2007 11:59:45 AM >
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/2/2007 9:30:55 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
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Your Weird Little Ways
(John 1: 40-42)
40Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, "We have found the Messiah" (that is, the Christ). 42And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, "You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas" (which, when translated, is Peter).
So here we have two brothers, Andrew and Simon Peter. Later we will learn more about their personalities, and that Peter is the more passionate and expressive of the two. I love the portrayal of him in the movie JESUS OF NAZARETH. It seems to be exactly as I pictured him as I read the Scriptures.
He is a man of extremes: extremely angry or extremely loving or extremely sorry. I know several people that remind me of his personality, even one of my children. I remember seeing the passionate expression emerging when they were only a baby, and asking God then to harness that passion like He did for Peter and to focus it for His Glory.
Christ changed Simon's name to Cephas, meaning Petra, meaning Peter... the Rock. Christ knew the passion of this man, and that even now his character reflected that he would be solid in his faith and a pillar in the church. It would be Peter that would first make the statement of faith that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Promised One of Israel.
I love that Andrew was the go-between. Perhaps, because of his passionate character, Peter was caught up in the discouragement of the time as Israel remained in bondage to Roman occupation. Perhaps, Peter was fed up with religion and the church of the day and had lost his Hope. How many of us can relate to such a sense of depression and discouragement in our own lives -- today -- as things seem to press in from all sides -- even within the framework of the church? As Christ began to call the disciples, they were not so different than you and me.
Andrew seems to have been a man more consistent and not one to waiver between extremes. It would seem apparent that the wisdom of God orchestrated the conversion of Andrew first, because Peter's faith had become one committed to family, friends, and community more than to God. Perhaps, Peter was more open to hearing and responding to his brother Andrew rather than to another holy man teaching the very same things that the Sadducees and Pharisees had burnt him out on hearing.
Perhaps, we would do well to ask ourselves about our own committments. Are we in church because our family expects us to be? Are we dependant solely on a social hour and a network of people to hang out with or to make business connections with? Are we serving and helping and ministering in the name of Christ merely to protect and establish our own reputation within our communities and towns?
I truly believe that the Lord is pulling back the masks that each of us have worn for so long, and asking us to be real with ourselves and with the people in our life. The time has come to stop coasting along and walking the walk on auto-pilot. It is time for Christians to truly examine themselves and the reason they do every little thing they do. The alarm is buzzing and it's time to wake up and clean up. A very important day is dawning in the Church and there is much to do.
It would be Andrew's influence in Peter's life that would be the voice that Peter would be willing to hear. There are people in your life that will only hear the Gospel from you. They like your personality, they like your weird little ways, they can relate to the things you say that seem unacceptable to some but that are part of who you are.
You speak their language.
You may be a Peter. You may be a man of extremes that is needed to be the rock.
Or you may be an Andrew, a man of calm consistency, that is needed to be the go-between, the communicator.
But either way, you are needed. Only YOU can go and compel those certain and specific souls to come to Christ with zeal -- with a willingness to hear Him without hesitation. All things are being made ready and the final days are upon us. Christ is calling. He is sending people into your life and across your path that are waiting for you to speak into their lives.
Everything is pulling you toward what you already know in your heart.
Emmanuel... You hear Him. You feel Him.
You know what He is asking you to do,
and you know that the very lives of people are in the balance.
YOU are important.
You and your weird little ways <3
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/10/2007 7:07:40 PM
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HansC
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Hi, selahgirl... I just thought i would let you know that I have been reading along and your writing, explanations, and style are excellent and a real pleasure to read. Thank you for the wonderful insights on John.
HansC
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/11/2007 6:36:55 PM
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selahgirl
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Thanks Hans. I'm a little behind, but I think about where I'm at in my reading/posting all the time. It seems like the Lord brings it to mind every time I turn around. Even in Sunday School this past week, we watched a video in which the speaker referred to the end of John, chapter one, as Nathanael encounters Christ -- the exact spot where I'm at. How funny ^_^
On top of that, the insight that he shared, echoed some things that the Lord spoke to my heart during my prayer time last week. It involved much about the times when we don't even realize that Christ sees us. Those seemingly unimportant times, those private times, those times when it seems that no one sees or cares or knows us. Private times, personal times, lonely times.
Nathanael knew those times as he sat under the tree as a man.
David knew those times as he sat in the field as a boy.
The Lord put some things in my heart this week to remind me that those times have purpose. Nothing... not a joy and not a hurt... is wasted with God. I'll explain more in my next post.
Blessings to you for an amazing weekend.
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/11/2007 7:35:40 PM
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HansC
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Hi, selahgirl:
quote:
It involved much about the times when we don't even realize that Christ sees us. Those seemingly unimportant times, those private times, those times when it seems that no one sees or cares or knows us.
I know what you mean. In my post 90#, The Fifth Wonder, in the Gospel of John, the same thing kept coming up. They did not see Jesus but he saw them. It's taken me a year and a half to get to the sixth chapter, but I have really learned a lot along the way.
Hans
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/11/2007 8:24:11 PM
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selahgirl
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Under the Fig Tree
(John 1:43-51)
43The next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee. Finding Philip, he said to him, "Follow me."
44Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45Philip found Nathanael and told him, "We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."
Once again we are reminded that Jesus did not begin in a manger as a baby. Rather, he was before even Moses, before the Law was carved into stone tablets. He was before the beginning. And here, Philip makes the correlation between the One Promised and Jesus of Nazareth. I don't know the history and the timeline. I'm sure someone has an answer, but it makes me wonder how this declaration of Philip is different from the declaration that Peter makes later in the Gospels. That statement of faith that Jesus is the Christ. Perhaps someone with more knowledge than me can enlighten us :o)
Perhaps it has to do with the fact that when Peter proclaimed it, it was the first time that Jesus acknowledged that it was true. Or that it was the right time (God's Timing) for it to be declared publicly as Truth rather than whispered quietly as a thought or possibility.
Either way, it remains that Philip heard about Jesus and told Nathanael.
46"Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?" Nathanael asked.
"Come and see," said Philip.
47When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false."
48"How do you know me?" Nathanael asked.
Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you."
49Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."
This is interesting to me, because upon hearing the news and excitement of Philip -- Nathanael immediately responds with skepticism. For whatever reason, he does not relate Nazareth with being an appropriate place for a holy man to emerge from.
Here is what is funny... Jesus didn't hear Nathanael make that remark, yet he greets him as though he did.
Basically, as Nathanael approaches, Jesus describes him as a man that speaks his mind, that is unafraid to voice his opinion because he strives to only speak what is true and relevant. We all know people like that. People that cause us to gasp at their boldness (not boldness in a rude sense, but boldness spoken rightly and with wisdom). They always manage to catch us off guard as they make comments seemingly from left field. Comments that sometimes rub us the wrong way, but that make sense after we painfully contemplate the depth of what they've said. Then we just kind of grin as we reluctantly shake our head in agreement, because we know that it's the Truth and needed to be said.
By the same token, Nathanael is quick to admit that Jesus has pegged his personality to the Tee. He knows that he is an annoyingly blunt man... BUT he wonders how Christ knew it.
1) First, he agrees to go and see this Jesus because he is intrigued that a holy man could come out of Nazareth and make such an impression on Philip, his trusted friend -- a relatively sensible man.
2) Now, he is almost stopped in his tracks as he approaches and is met with Jesus telling him all about himself. You can almost see the wheels turning in Nathanael's mind trying to figure out who this Jesus is and how He knows his business. Being the transparent man that he is... unafraid to inquire when a question comes to mind... Nathanael asks Jesus how he knows him.
3) Jesus shocks Nathanael for a third time by telling him that he saw him only moments earlier, even when Nathanael had no idea that He was anywhere around -- that moment when Nathanael thought he was all alone. Perhaps he sat under that tree in his loneliness, or in his sin, or in his thankfulness... talking to God in his thoughts about the things that were in his heart or weighing on his mind.
Whatever the expression in the eyes of Jesus, whatever the tone of His voice, as He told Nathanael that He saw him... Nathanael knew that Jesus knew exactly what was on his mind as he sat under that tree.
Nathanael was a man that spoke and lived and breathed Truth. He recognized Truth when he heard it or saw it. In that moment, he knew that Jesus was somehow there under that tree only moments earlier -- there in his thoughts -- there in his heart. Only God could have known what Jesus knew about him. It took Nathanael less than an instant to put two and two together, and so he cried out,
"You are the Son of God, the King of Israel!"
50Jesus said, "You believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You shall see greater things than that." 51He then added, "I tell you the truth, you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."
What an amazing moment!
When we acknowledge the little things that God does, he pours out even more. Just like a loving parent, he gets excited when he sees us get excited. It's like he loves to fill us with awe and wonder, to bless us beyond anything we could imagine, to not only let us drink in His beauty and wonder, but to actually participate in the fulfillment of it, to not just witness it, but to touch it and handle it for ourselves. To live it.
God with us...
it's so much more than what it seems. It's Truth, it's a dream come true, it's the answer to every question and any question, the fulfillment of every desire or need, it's being able to not just witness God but to experience Him, to experience all the amazing and indescribable facets of His nature, His personality, His love. To really know Him
... to be with Him.
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/19/2007 12:15:10 PM
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selahgirl
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I just wanted to insert this passage about David and Goliath, because it just encouraged me so much during the prayer time I mentioned above. God seems to be speaking against discouragement. So many of us are looking at our lives and feeling like failures and thinking the things in our past, and the messy walk we have stumbled thru so far, is just too messy or just too boring or just too -- whatever -- for God to do anything with. We are left feeling like our lives are a waste of everyone's time, that we squandered it or that it was stolen from us, and we are left with nothing to show for having ever been born.
But I feel like we are in an excellent place, poised to strike back against the discouragement and lies that the enemy has caused us to believe. Lying in the grass, whispering to our thoughts with all subtlety, he has convinced us that we don't matter, that we can't make a difference, that there is no hope for us, no hope for this black world -- that we may as well just sit down and watch everyone parade past us.
But God is saying to rise up. Return to that childish faith that trusts him completely no matter the circumstance. Call the devil a liar, and tell him to slither back into the weeds and the dirt with his lies and his discouragement. Our God is the giver of HOPE and FAITH and LOVE, and as his children -- we are born to victory!
so consider this...
Training Season
(I Samuel 17:37-50)
37 The LORD who delivered me from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will deliver me from the hand of this Philistine."
Saul said to David, "Go, and the LORD be with you."
The first time that bear or lion attacked, I'm sure David trembled with fear. I'm sure as it growled and stalked him and the sheep that he loved, he must have felt the hair on the back of his neck stand up as a cold shiver crept down his back. It was a test of his courage, would he stand and fight, or would he surrender all to the beast and cower in the shadows? He stood, He fought, and He won.
Not only did he win the battle with the beasts in the field, he won the battle against fear and intimidation that the enemy brings against us. Doubt in ourselves, doubt in God. David was tempted, but he resolved to resist the temptation. And each time he stood his ground, it trained him in the physical for what he chose to believe in the spiritual... and in his heart.
It was a season of testing, it was a season of preparation. A time spent buried in the ground, when his faith was only a tiny seed, where no one could see the blackness of the weight upon him, no one could see the breaking, the loneliness he felt, the sweat upon his brow -- the tremble in his limbs as he stepped out in faith and slung that first stone back at a real enemy.
(I'm out of time, but I'll be back to finish the story...)
*hugs*
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/21/2007 11:40:35 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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You gotta walk on your own dirt.
(I Samuel 17:38-51)
... so yeah, sometimes we must face a real enemy. Sometimes it's not all in our head or in our "damaged emotions" or simply the whining of a drama king or queen. Sometimes the battle is very real as we wrestle and bleed and sweat while those around us briefly look in our direction, scowl and shake their head as they trot off picking flowers.
38 Then Saul dressed David in his own tunic. He put a coat of armor on him and a bronze helmet on his head. 39 David fastened on his sword over the tunic and tried walking around, because he was not used to them.
"I cannot go in these," he said to Saul, "because I am not used to them." So he took them off.
People want to dress us up in their reality, in their garb, thinking if we would just think happy thoughts and go with the flow and handle ourselves on the battlefield like they do... we wouldn't be bothered by the insults shouted about the people we love or the giant threatening to take our life or the attack against the Kingdom of our God.
They want us to approach the unlovely things that are sometimes life as they do, much like Saul tried to equip and prepare David. Ignoring the fact that their method failed against the conflict at hand. What they wore, what was tailor-made for them, is not always what God has planned for you to wear. And God's will and plan for each specific thing that we face in life must be the method we seek, not a method based on the vision of men.
How do you tell the head honcho that you need to approach the situation differently? How do you tell him that his method doesn't feel right, that you can't succeed in the task at hand if you wear what he has determined to put upon you? How do you say such a thing to a king, to your pastor, to your mentor or teacher or family? What do you do when people in authority over you are speaking contrary to what God is speaking?
How should a king receive such a response? How should your pastor take it when a young up-start rejects his advice and wisdom and feels that it is necessary to do things differently to succeed in what they have been challenged by God to do? How do you as a leader or the elder or the one with seniority -- take your hands off of someone under your authority, and step back and not be offended by (or abusive to force your will upon) the situation and the people involved?
40 Then he took his staff in his hand, chose five smooth stones from the stream, put them in the pouch of his shepherd's bag and, with his sling in his hand, approached the Philistine.
ahhhh... there it is... what God absolutely moved me with the other day. Here is David, the unimportant little shepherd, the baby, the nobody... the one with the seemingly least experience to be standing on the battlefield and approaching a giant adversary that was known for striking terror into the heart of entire armies. What would be David's method? What defense could he possibly have? What weapon?
... a shepherd's staff, some stones from the water, his shepherd's bag, and a piece of leather.
All four items hold such powerful significance. It is no coincidence that there are four. Four is symbolic of the World... and the love of the world is our enemy. Satan is the instigator, the liar, the murderer... but it is the world that is the true temptation. It is the world that Satan offered to Christ on that pinnacle of the temple. To rule it, to be praised by it, to be like a god.
We fight against the enemy with the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony. Here again, we see the Word of God at work in the reality that is life. I'm running out of time, but let me quickly mention the shepherd's bag because that is what Christ drew my attention to so strongly as he opened this passage up to me.
The shepherd's bag represents David's past. It was the thing that carried the stones as he entered into battle. It was the bag that he used in the field when he tended the sheep -- when he felt so forgotten and overlooked and small. As he "rushed to face the giant" it was David's past as a shepherd that he drew from to win the battle, to slay the giant that defiantly shouted insults at the Almighty God and the people that were loved by Him.
So many times we see our past, the life that we have walked, as time wasted, as a mess that robs us of our hope. But in God's reality, it is merely an arsenal, five smooth stones (five symbolizes GRACE), purchased by Christ, polished by the water of His Spirit, and made available to us so that we can take down any giant that comes against us. You are loved by God. He loved you when you were forgotten in the field, and he loves you as you stand face to face with that giant that is spitting insults out at you right now. You are not alone. He remains with you always.
41 Meanwhile, the Philistine, with his shield bearer in front of him, kept coming closer to David. 42 He looked David over and saw that he was only a boy, ruddy and handsome, and he despised him. 43 He said to David, "Am I a dog, that you come at me with sticks?" And the Philistine cursed David by his gods. 44 "Come here," he said, "and I'll give your flesh to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field!"
45 David said to the Philistine, "You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the LORD Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. 46 This day the LORD will hand you over to me, and I'll strike you down and cut off your head. Today I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. 47 All those gathered here will know that it is not by sword or spear that the LORD saves; for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give all of you into our hands."
48 As the Philistine moved closer to attack him, David ran quickly toward the battle line to meet him. 49 Reaching into his bag and taking out a stone, he slung it and struck the Philistine on the forehead. The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell facedown on the ground.
50 So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone; without a sword in his hand he struck down the Philistine and killed him.
51 David ran and stood over him. He took hold of the Philistine's sword and drew it from the scabbard. After he killed him, he cut off his head with the sword.
When the Philistines saw that their hero was dead, they turned and ran.
Your life has purpose. Then and now. All of it. The pain caused by a fallen creation and a cursed world was never part of God's plan for you. But he promises to take ALL THINGS and use them to bring GOOD THINGS to your life. David's life as a shepherd was rewarding, but being a shepherd boy also caused him some shame and frustration. It made him a target even by his family, but in the end it trained him for greatness.
Your life -- whatever shame or frustration it contains, is no different. God can use it to train you for greatness. The pain wasn't His plan, but the victory is His promise.
Don't feel like you have to wear what people want to put upon you. Sometimes you gotta say what David said and tell them that you just can't wear it. Then you gotta take it off.
You are not them, and the path that they are walking with Christ (though laid out beside yours) is not the same dirt that is under your feet. You gotta walk on your own dirt. There is a bond with their's, a precious and essential connection, but there is a uniqueness... God designs beautiful things.
Love People, be respectful, be thankful, be gracious, be kind, but
Love God Most.
Let Him be your favorite.
Value the dirt that God specifically put under your feet, and praise him like a crazy person when he uses you to make giants fall facedown in it.
.
< Message edited by selahgirl -- 10/22/2007 8:22:29 AM >
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/25/2007 1:15:04 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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We Win, Woo-Hoot!
(recap of I Sam 17)
I just wanted to do one last run through of this passage before moving on to John 2, because the symbolism speaks so powerfully to the church today. Not the church as in the machine as much as to the church -- you and me.
37 The LORD who delivered me from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will deliver me from the hand of this Philistine."
Saul said to David, "Go, and the LORD be with you."
The lion represents the devourer. Satan is called a roaring lion that seeks to devour us. So many times we picture that as meaning that some little guy in a red suit is going to rise up out of the floor like Beetlejuice and scream BOO! But the reality of it all is that Satan needs people to work his destruction. He preys upon our weaknesses and character flaws to use us as instruments to wound and cripple and destroy one anther. We become puppets on his hand, weapons in his control to maim and consume with everything contrary to the plan and heart of God.
Do you think that it was the plan of that friend that betrayed you to destroy your walk with Christ. No. They just wanted to lash back at you for something you did. Or they were just too caught up in their own selfish desires. It was the devourer whispering in their ear, prodding them to go ahead, to not think of anyone but themselves, to sin against God and you, to get that rush of satisfaction for one fleeting moment.
Never realizing that as that brief moment passes, they will stand in the middle of a circle of destruction that they were used to reek. Their life will cower in shame, broken and twisted and crippled as will the many lives they devoured to fill the greed of their belly. Satan is the devourer, but he needs us to sin to accomplish the destruction he craves. He wants to make us look like him rather than Christ.
The same with the bear. It is a symbol of violence. If there was ever such a stench in the air of the world of violence, it is today. Bears are brutes, they maul and taunt and rip you apart as though it is a game. They enjoy the process of the kill, more than filling their belly. Although they like that too.
God gave David victory over the lion and the bear at a very young age, early in his walk, to train him for his future. He will do the same for you. That crisis that the enemy has wrought in your life, that you stumbled thru and somehow managed to survive, was to prepare you to face the giant. Don't think for a moment that when one crisis passes, that the battle is over. When Christ was tempted, Scripture says that Satan left Him until a more opportune time.
We will face many lions and bears along the way. But as we look to God and praise Him and defend the things that are close to his heart -- honesty, courage, truth, love, mercy, and JUSTICE -- we will mature and gain strength/wisdom. We will reach a place where lions and bears are easily taken down, and we will be sent by God to stand against giants that threaten way more than just us. We will stand appointed by God to save many. To reflect Christ, we must take on his character, we must discipline ourselves to be like him, we must learn from every test and trial to reflect his image... even to the point of being that sacrificial lamb, that savior, that lion of Judah (willing to attack evil and to devour the plan of Satan in the name of Christ).
So many things, so many parallels.
David was saved from the PAW of the lion and of the bear. They didn't even get to lay a hand on him. Christ gave him the strength and skill and wit to come out of each attack without a scratch -- not even smelling like smoke (as the three Hebrew children experienced as well). Sometimes we must endure wounds from the battle, but not always. And when wounds are necessary, God is quick to bring healing. The scars that remain are a testimony of what God saved us from, and of our faithfulness to Him.
"Go and the Lord be with you."
Those words remain as true and powerful today, and will only continue to gain strength as eternity moves us all forward. God with us. It is the key to every battle. Every lion we face, every bear, every giant, every lie, every heartbreak, every betrayal, every disappoint, every lonely road... We will never be alone, the presence of God embraces us and shields us and heals us and empowers us. Our Dad is AWESOME!
38 Then Saul dressed David in his own tunic. He put a coat of armor on him and a bronze helmet on his head. 39 David fastened on his sword over the tunic and tried walking around, because he was not used to them.
"I cannot go in these," he said to Saul, "because I am not used to them." So he took them off. 40 Then he took his staff in his hand, chose five smooth stones from the stream, put them in the pouch of his shepherd's bag and, with his sling in his hand, approached the Philistine.
Much of this we have already discussed, but let me come back to the other three things that David carried into battle. The wooden shepherd's staff was symbolic of the cross and the authority given to us because of it. A staff represents a person's authority, their heritage, the power handed to them thru their family line and all that they have inherited along the way. Christ became a man, and he passed his authority to David, to us. We enter into battle with the authority of our God, because of the price Christ paid on the cross.
I heard a quote from someone on the worship munchies thread, "Is what you're living for, worth Christ dying for?" Much has been given to us, entrusted to us. How can we be anything but faithful to that heritage, to give all, if we truly love Christ as completely as we claim? What kind of people are we? Are we the image of our Father or not?
Five smooth stones: five is symbolic of Grace, meaning it is a fistful, it is enough. "It is finished," remember those words, remember that moment on the cross? Stones are symbolic of the law, of order, of justice. We have been conditioned for so long to see the ten commandments as harsh and cold. But Christ said from the beginning that he did not come to do away with the law, he came to fulfill it. Without the law, without obedience to the commands of God, chaos would run wild and disorder would open the floodgates of pain and misery. Christ came to offer mercy, to clean up the mess of the disorder that Adam/Eve unleashed and that we continue to embrace.
What a picture of the fulfillment. What a picture of where the law connects to the mercy of God. It is the setting in order of all things so that there is completeness, rest, peace, and joy. Five stones made smooth by the presence of His Spirit that has come along side of us to polish us and to make the law/obedience to God a beautiful thing -- a powerful thing, a thing that can take down every giant that tries to stand in the way of the people of God. Our Father not only rushes in to stand beside us, he trains and equips us to stand beside Him. We are family. We are one, united, grafted in... we are treasured and valued and loved.
Finally the sling. The piece of leather made from some animals hide. Does that make you think of anything? Fig leaves were replaced by animal skin, something died to cover our nakedness, our sin, our failure. But like the shepherd's bag, Christ can transform our shame into something that equips us in the battle. Not just to guard us and keep us safe, but to make us deadly to the enemies of God. Something died to undo our sin, now that we are free from that sin, we are able to snuff the life out of our enemies -- arrogance, selfishness, hatred, jealousy, envy, lies, everything contrary to the character and nature of our God. Something must die alright... our sin.
We are made warriors, armed, and set on victory. No turning back. No settling for less. We will win this thing because God has made us able.
41 Meanwhile, the Philistine, with his shield bearer in front of him, kept coming closer to David. 42 He looked David over and saw that he was only a boy, ruddy and handsome, and he despised him. 43 He said to David, "Am I a dog, that you come at me with sticks?" And the Philistine cursed David by his gods. 44 "Come here," he said, "and I'll give your flesh to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field!"
The enemy, the world, the ungodly, see us as small and insignificant. They are amused or disgusted for whatever reason, but they despise us all the same. We will always appear as foolish children or clowns to them, but what does it matter? What does it matter what they think or how much they despise us? We win.
We must never get caught up in sizing up the enemy and comparing ourselves to them. If we do, we'll become like Peter and we will begin to sink. No. Our eyes must remain on Christ, our ears must hear His voice, our heart must trust in Him, and our mouths must express our Praise of all that He has promised. Whether we see it in this moment or the next, we must know that the Truth of the matter, of every situation, is not always visible in the physical world. We often have to see into the spiritual, grab a hold of it, and pull it into the here and now with force. That is Faith.
45 David said to the Philistine, "You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the LORD Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. 46 This day the LORD will hand you over to me, and I'll strike you down and cut off your head. Today I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. 47 All those gathered here will know that it is not by sword or spear that the LORD saves; for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give all of you into our hands."
What are the weapons of our warfare? The Blood of the Lamb and the Word of our Testimony... a shepherd's staff, five smooth stones, a shepherd's bag, and a sling.
Don't you just love that ^_^
48 As the Philistine moved closer to attack him, David ran quickly toward the battle line to meet him. 49 Reaching into his bag and taking out a stone, he slung it and struck the Philistine on the forehead. The stone sank into his forehead, and he fell facedown on the ground.
50 So David triumphed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone; without a sword in his hand he struck down the Philistine and killed him.
51 David ran and stood over him. He took hold of the Philistine's sword and drew it from the scabbard. After he killed him, he cut off his head with the sword.
David didn't size up this giant. He saw the size of His God and that's all he was concerned with. If we could just see with such a heart, with such a faith, the enemy would never be able to intimidate us with waves of a storm as we walk on the water, or with lions and bears in the field, or with giants that tower over us and spit in our face. God is not mocked. With him standing beside us, we can do anything. We can make him proud, we can be on his team, we can look just like our Dad. We can win.
We can rush out onto that battlefield, into the face of any giant, without fear or intimidation, without arrogance or selfish ambition... we can stare down any enemy when we see Christ and Christ only. He is our strength and our guide, our commander and our defense. We win every time. We win no matter the appearance of things. We win because of Him.
We win -- you and me and God
woo-hoot!
^_^
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 10/28/2007 6:17:22 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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HOLY
(John 2:1)
1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there,
Okay, here's a little something about Mary, mother of Jesus. Growing up I had always thought that Jesus was actually the DNA son of Mary. But as I got older and began to study a little about the uniqueness of the blood of Christ, I came upon some very cool revelations. I know there are a million, gah-zillion theories on the matter, but here's the one that makes sense to me.
Consider (Hebrews 10:5-6)
5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
When we remember from John 1, how that Christ is eternal, that he has always existed as God, that he was with the Father at the creation of the earth and of mankind... it becomes evident that Emmanuel (God with us) prepared a physical body on this earth, and entered into it as a Spirit Being dwelling inside an earth suit.
Wow, behold the mystery of the incarnation. Almighty God, existing beyond the universe and within it, suddenly focuses his presence in the tiny speck of dust of a human body, a man. God become man. All God in who he is, all man existing in the physical world, God become Man. You just can't explain or describe that effectively.
So here is the science that I have come to understand about blood and pregnancy. I always wondered, what makes the blood of Christ so unique. If he was born of Mary, from her DNA, wouldn't he still inherit the sin gene like the rest of us. How is his blood pure and clean, without blemish, and untainted?
It's all about pregnancy -- specifically -- surrogacy.
In preganancy, the mother's blood never mingles with the baby that she carries. Food is filtered to the baby thru the umbilical cord, but not the blood. So the baby gets nutrition, but none of the mother's blood. Normally if you put one type of blood in someone of a different blood type, it will kill them. But a baby can be born with an entirely different blood type than the mother and neither of them gets sick, because their blood always remains separated.
That is where surrogacy comes into play. A sperm and egg come from parents and an embryo is formed, then it is implanted in the womb of a woman that is not connected to the baby by DNA. Her body will accept the embryo and respond in a healthy pregnancy and healthy baby. She gives the baby no DNA, only nutrition so it can grow and develop.
So here is the key of how the Blood of Christ remains pure. God prepared a body for Jesus to enter into. The Holy Spirit placed a divine embryo in Mary's body, it spoke to nothing and caused a cell to appear in her womb. Then it spoke life to the cell and caused it to multiply. In that instant when life entered that cell, the Spirit Being that is Jesus entered into it. Jesus brought Life from the moment that Emmanuel was manifested among us. Both Physical and Spiritual Life in so many many ways.
So the Blood of Christ remained pure. It was never mingled with Mary's. It was uniquely prepared by God to be blameless, untainted, and Holy. The only worthy sacrifice, far above the blood of any other man, of any other sacrifice, whether plant, animal, or mankind. It was pure and Holy both physically and spiritually.
(John 15:12-14)
12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.
The sacrifice of our fallen heroes moves us and is worthy of love, respect, and honor. How much more is the sacrifice of our God. Christ knows how precious a life is. That's why he gave his own to save ours. The Blood of Christ is an incredible thing, full of Power, full of Cleansing, full of Healing, full of Love in the purest form <3
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 11/1/2007 2:01:08 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
Joined: 5/20/2005
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Pigs and Grapes and Stuff
(John 2:2-3)
2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
Just in the first three verses of this chapter, there is so much potential for scandal. First the divinity of Mary, now the issue of alcohol... it just proves that there is no issue that Scripture doesn't deal with in some way. We have trivialized the Word of God, and carved it on stone rather than in our hearts. How sad. Such an idolizing of spiritual tools threatens to undo all that Christ came to earth to accomplish.
Of coarse, the will of God is already fulfilled. Nevertheless, it remains a threat on a personal level for each person trying to understand the will of God for their life. All I'm saying is that the heart of the law is so much more important than the manner or device used to communicate it to people. Yes the word, the commands of God are the heart of the law, but somewhere along the way we have manipulated doctrine into an idol, a god that needs men to defend it.
Trust me, we simply state the Truth, declare what we believe about Christ and all that he spoke about justice, faithfulness, and the love of God for all people... and God can defend his commands and his Word.
Alcohol...
I am currently attending a Nazarene Church after many journeys (old and new) in search of God's will for the life of my family. I have been TRULY blessed by the honesty of their doctrine of alcohol. It is refreshing to hear that the evidence in Scripture is not one that proclaims that all alcohol is gross sin, that it will send you to hell.
Rather, they teach that it is the root of many social evils and is therefore something that they encourage believers to abstain from. Wow... I love honesty, it's so refreshing.
I don't believe that all alcohol consumption is sin. I do however, firmly believe that getting drunk is.
I had been taught that all the words in the NT where alcohol was consumed in a positive light, were actually interpreted in the original Greek as meaning unfermented grape juice. I accepted this teaching for a while, but as I read further and further into Scripture, something weighed on my mind about it all. So I spent an entire day (when I was in my twenties), literally, digging thru Scripture, concordances, bible dictionaries, and reference material trying to understand it all. My conclusion at the end of the day was that, drinking alcohol will not send you to hell -- though drunkenness can.
Bottom line, if you can't stop yourself, if you lack SELF-CONTROL to the point of often finding yourself reaping some difficult consequences or inflicting painful consequences on the lives of the people around you... then you should never touch a drop.
Gluttony, drunkenness, over-indulgence, will quickly change the effects of wine into something negative -- as well as make you vomit and pass out. Just being real here.
It wasn't a matter of craving to drink alcohol, it was more a matter of dealing with teens and young converts that were asking me questions about alcohol and I was giving them answers based on church doctrine rather than the Scriptures. Though I loved the people in that church, I was struggling with teaching things that I was not convinced of after ten years of membership. Leaving that church was very difficult, but several things confirmed that God was calling our family to a different place in our walk with Him.
We fasted from alcohol for over 12 years, respecting out commitment to membership. But as a teacher, I could not continue in teaching a doctrine that I didn't fully believe.
As I studied many of the passages that had been referenced to me by leaders as meaning grape juice, I found that most all actually referred to generic terms that could mean fermented or unfermented grape juice. It simply meant any fruit, alcoholic and not, that came from the grapevines.
It was stated that there is no way that Jesus would turn the water into fermented wine and get a bunch of people drunk at a party. His holiness makes us instantly agree, but after putting much thought and study to it, I just can't agree with several assumptions tacked onto that comment. Getting drunk is a choice just like any other sin. Sex can lead to prostitution and adultery, but God created sex. Many things are distorted or abused by people and the enemy that result in sin and social evil. But isn't there some word of wisdom about a baby and some bath water...
I also considered the Jewish wedding ceremonies, old and new. Little has changed, and fermented wine is the drink of choice. If Jesus truly performed this miracle to save this family from discrace/embarrassment on behalf of his mother, their hostess/friend, I believe the wine he created in those barrels was the best fermented grape juice of the day. Just like the guy declared when he stood and raved over the quality.
Wine is often linked to times of celebration:
(I Chronicles 12:38-40)
38 All these were fighting men who volunteered to serve in the ranks. They came to Hebron fully determined to make David king over all Israel. All the rest of the Israelites were also of one mind to make David king. 39 The men spent three days there with David, eating and drinking, for their families had supplied provisions for them. 40 Also, their neighbors from as far away as Issachar, Zebulun and Naphtali came bringing food on donkeys, camels, mules and oxen. There were plentiful supplies of flour, fig cakes, raisin cakes, wine, oil, cattle and sheep, for there was joy in Israel.
The word for wine here is from the Hebrew 3196 as referenced in Strong's. It means fermented wine, or intoxication as in banqueting or wine-bibber.
Consider Luke 7, as Christ addresses the Temple Leaders:
33For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' 34The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." '
The word for wine here is from the Greek 3631, and can mean fermented or unfermented, and is also associated with the derivation of the Hebrew above 3196.
I shun *shshshuuuunnnnn* (for all you Charlie the unicorn lovers out there) all that researchy-sounding stuff when at all possible. But research is kinda essential in some respect at all times. Though I firmly believe that God designed the workings of his Word and his Spirit to allow any common folk or person like myself to pick up a Bible and understand whatever he wants to say to us at any given moment of our walk. The Word is alive. It's aLIVE! aLIVE I say!
so yeah...
And another thing, we're told to give it to people when they sorrow or grieve. Some argue that we have meds for that now. But what's the difference in the pastor's wife taking a benedryl or some ludes to help her sleep than a glass of wine or two. Other than the wine could be arguably healthier and less addictive.
I've also considered the don't cause your brother to stumble passage in Romans 14.
16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.
This passage is referring to doing things in the presence of people that they find offensive. If you go to Mexico and burp after a meal, it is offensive. If you do the same thing in Germany, it is more of a compliment. Burping isn't a sin, but don't do it or argue that it's okay when someone in Mexico is hosting a dinner.
This passage is about food more than alcohol. So who doesn't drink alcohol? Do you eat pork? Do you eat meat? most of you do. But when reasonable, don't drink alcohol in front of someone that struggles with drunkenness, don't eat pork in front of a Jew or Muslim, and don't eat meat in front of a Vegan. Sometimes it can't be helped, or sometimes, it's a situation where it's not unreasonable, and sometimes people are going to take offense with you no matter what. But basically, be considerate, even to the point of sacrificing your freedom in a certain area for a certain time.
These aren't meant to lash out at anyone, though I've been hammered on the issue by others of the same Faith. I am simply walking you thru some of the thought processes that brought me some clarity on the issue. There are more, but I strive to keep these posts brief, tho I obviously fail miserably at it from time to time.
All that to say that I don't believe that wine in moderation will send you to hell.
However... if you are underage and drinking... or driving and drinking... or any such thing as that where you are violating the laws of your people and nation... then you be in sin when you drink alcohol in any form.
(I Peter 2:13-15)
13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God.
I have seen people that THINK that they can stop themselves -- be dead wrong. I have seen teens that think it will boost their social status and give them power/control over their own life. I have seen people total their cars, kill their best friend or a family member, spend months/years in jail or appearing before judge after judge. I have seen DRUNKENNESS rob people of so much. I have seen alcohol mixed with a lack of wisdom and a lack of self-control intensify the stupidity and foolishness of many a person consumed and caught up with their own arrogance.
Funny thing is that they think they are just as wise and in-control of themselves as the next person. They can't step outside themselves and see themselves stagger and offend and harm the people around them... until it's too late and someone is dead or a relationship is damaged... sometimes beyond repair. Sometimes it's better to just never open Pandora's box, when you're not sure of what's inside or how you'll react to it.
BEST THING: don't drink alcohol in any form at any time.
Some people should NEVER drink alcohol. They simply lack the ability to be responsible.
Some people should NEVER drive a car. They also lack that level of responsible behavior.
Some people should NEVER handle a gun, have a baby, adopt a child, own a dog, pick their own clothes (some people just can't discern slutty)...
But some people have the measure of responsible behavior and personal accountability necessary to handle such things. The hardest part of learning to be responsible is being able to confess that you lack self-control in a certain area of your life. But that's also the first step in recovery and maturity and succeeding in life.
Pray and Seek God in the matter. Don't take my word for it, search out what God has to say about it all to you specifically. Many men and women were called to abstain from all kinds of seemingly insignificant things. If you desire to drink alcohol and are motivated by rebellion or loneliness or a bad day/week/year/lifetime, then it may just be sin or an open door for sin in your life. You need to not use this post as an excuse to be careless, you need to search your heart in the presence of God.
Luv you guys
<3
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 11/5/2007 2:24:32 PM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU
(John 2:4-5)
4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
Mary had been amazed from the moment that Gabriel appeared to her with a message from God. We think that it was an obvious and effortless response to agree to birth the Messiah, but I believe that it was a sober and deep-selah moment. I think she thought hard about the message that was presented to her before giving an answer. I believe she knew that once she answered and accepted what was being asked of her -- there would be no going back. There would be consequences (positive and negative) as a result of her response to the message that was delivered.
Have you ever been asked something, something that you knew would affect everything and everyone in your life for the rest of your existence and on into eternity? You think you know what you will respond with, you feel it in the core of your being, in your gut, but you run thru every detail several times in your heart and thoughts before answering. Your eyes zone out, your vision blurs, as everything in you walks thru the thought process in your mind, sorting and weighing everything you know and understand -- all in order to confirm that simple yes or no that you are about to commit to.
I believe that Mary had that moment, that slowing down of her breathing, that drift of vision, as she contemplated how she would respond to what God was asking or assigning to her. She knew the nature/heart of her God. She knew his power/supremacy/wisdom. She understood that for him to ask such a thing of her meant that the importance of it was far beyond understanding. It wasn't a matter of fully understanding the mind of God, nor of comprehending how such a miracle could be accomplished or why it was necessary. It was a matter of making up her mind in that one brief moment to submit herself completely to God. That's why she was chosen. She wasn't holier than most, or beyond what you or I am capable of. She was resolute in her commitments, that was the defining character of this chosen, blessed girl.
Mary was focused on loving God to the point of trusting him no matter what he asked of her. Because he knew her character, that she was devout in whatever she committed herself to do or not do... God knew that her heart would yield to his will above her own.
We are all chosen by God to perform something, to play a key role in the arrival of the Kingdom of God. We all have the opportunity to be known as blessed in many different ways. The key lies in our response to whatever it is that God is asking of us at any given moment. I think Mary had many choices set before her before this moment. I think she answered no to some, I think she was just as imperfect as the rest of us and missed the will of God on occasion. But I also think that there was a consistent strength and commitment in her heart that caused her to strive to choose the will of God over her own -- a consistency that grew over time until she was at a place where she had learned to trust God almost instinctively. I believe that she made up her mind to be passionate and violent with herself or anything that tried to hinder her from choosing the will of God.
The many small choices she had made in the years previous (the many difficulties in life and the many temptations) -- I think all prepared her and trained her to consider and weigh every choice, solidifying her ability to be resolute and to arrive at the right response more quickly --
"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." (Luke 1:38)
Mary didn't have to have all the answers. She knew that if her heart/motives were pure, she could ask God anything and trust his response no matter what it might be. She knew that God has a plan, but he is always open to work our heart's desire out for us at any given moment. She understood that he considers our requests and petitions, and that what we ask of him matters.
The need for wine at this feast was important to Mary, for whatever reason. Maybe it wasn't to you or me or anyone else, but it was to her. She took that request to Jesus because she had learned that no matter how big or how small the need -- he always has an answer that will bring peace to any situation. And she was right to ask this of him. He conversed with her briefly about the situation to let her know that he had heard her, that he wanted to understand her request, that he wanted her to understand his heart... and then he responded
with a miracle.
Mary told the servants to do whatever he asked of them. She knew that that was the key.
Yield to God, submit to Him, trust Him with all that you hold dear...
and God will respond every time in ways that will cause you to be called BLESSED.
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RE: Thinking Out Loud about John - 11/12/2007 6:42:28 AM
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selahgirl
Posts: 834
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: God is with you, never forget that <3
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Bucket by Bucket
(John 2:6-11)
6Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.
Mary makes the need known and looks to Jesus. Then she leaves it to him to respond however he chooses, trusting that whatever he decides to do, it will bring the greatest peace and the wisest outcome. How easy that sounds, but we all know how difficult it is to trust like that.
Yet, here is Mary, unchanged in her reliance and trust in the God that she loves. Even in the cares of this life, she casts it all at the feet of Christ and trusts him to accomplish the many things that she will never understand.
I don't think this was a preordained moment for the first miracle to occur. I don't think it was in everyone's mind that this event was about to become documented in history for eternity. I think it was a background moment, one that seemed very unnoticed at the time. I think it was like carrying the church tables and setting them up in the parking lot for the Fall Festival, or breaking down the chairs in the sanctuary for a special prayer service on a Friday night. I think it was just another moment that needed people to serve one another. It is in moments like that that miracles occur. When hearts are thinking of everyone other than themselves.
So Christ looks at what is at hand and what he has to work with. And there conveniently stands six large empty water pots. Not pitchers... but pots that probably stood on the ground and came to their waist. Holding 20-30 gallons each, that's 120-360 gallons of paint, or 24-36 five gallon buckets of water that had to be toted from the well (those big white buckets that you see sitting around on construction sites). Six large water pots sounds so small, but we're talking about holding alot of water.
7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.
Jesus looks around the room having made up his mind that Mary's request was a selfless one, having weighed the situation and having determined to bless it. He sees the water pots and tells the servants to fill them with water. What must have run thru their minds?...
What was he thinking? Was he going to ignore Mary's request? Would he put it off for later?
Why was he asking them to tote all that water and fill the jars? They didn't need more water at the moment. There seemed no reason to ask them to do all that unnecessary work when they were already tired from setting up the festivities and would eventually be preparing the breakdown of it all as well.
But they had been told to do whatever he asked, and so they did without question. Not only did they do what he said, they did it to the full. The pots were filled to the brim. They could have filled them halfway or left them barely full, but no. These were obedient servants, people of integrity, and they filled the pots to almost overflowing. The abundance of wine is partially to their credit as well.
8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."
They did so,
Now this was a bold move. Again the integrity of the servants was put to the test. How small their role seems when we first scan over this story but how great is their character in affecting the outcome of this story, the miracle that resulted.
The servants were obedient to Mary's instruction. They didn't do a halfway job, rather they went beyond what was asked of them filling the pots to the brim. And now, they are asked to serve a glass of water to the host, to bother him at a busy time and hand him something that he had not asked for. Would they obey Mary by obeying Christ and take the water to the host? Would they risk appearing foolish, would they risk a good scolding or reprimand by angering the master of the house?
yes.
They trusted Mary, and they trusted Christ because Mary trusted him.
Mary was seen as having a good character and as a woman of integrity. The servants were also good and Godly and committed people. And Christ, well, he was Christ, and his character and faithfulness was the source of theirs.
(Ecc 4:12)
Though one may be overpowered,
two can defend themselves.
A cord of three strands is not quickly broken.
Who you trust determines the strength of the cord/rope. One person may weaken the line, but when you work within a network of Godly people -- the strength of one mind and one Spirit, and Faith in the One True God, will be enough to carry any weight. God will guard that truth....
even if he must do a miracle to ensure it.
9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
I love that this passage specifies that the servants knew. They knew because they were the ones that took the risk. They knew because they wondered at what Jesus had asked of them and had prepared themselves to bear the brunt of his actions -- actions that required them to do something that made no sense and that came at an inopportune time, during a busy wedding feast. The servants knew that the liquid in that cup was plain ol' every day water from the well just outside. And so, they held their breath and wondered at this curious situation that they were thrust into the middle of.
Then he called the bridegroom aside
10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."
This is interesting to me because I never noticed that he pulled the bridegroom aside and spoke with him quietly. I had always thought that he shouted this comment in front of all the guests. But this was said almost in a whisper to the bridegroom (who was evidently responsible for supplying the wine). So the story must have been spread mainly by the servants. Again, we see Christ going to the unnoticed, the servant, the common people... a young Jewish girl in a small town, humble shepherds in the field, insignificant women at his resurrection, and here... meager house servants are the witnesses and participants of his first miracle.
We elbow and fight to get to the front of the line, to the top of the pile, to be the leader, the king of the hill, that little mound of dirt and nothing... while the true miracles, the amazing things, the presence of God -- manifests itself more often in the quiet places, the ordinary situations, the lives of seemingly unimportant people... that's where Christ seems to focus his blessing and goodness.
If only our heart would continue to go there, to strive to be where he would be, to cherish and embrace the small and ordinary, the down-trodden and oppressed, the lonely and the broken-hearted... perhaps we would be in the midst of the miraculous more often rather than standing on a mound of dirt wearing a pasted crown and looking more like a jester than the authentic kings and priests that God intended.
11This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.
So here we have it. The first documented miracle of Christ. Water poured into pots, bucket by bucket, served in a cup, changed somewhere along the line into wine -- miraculously. A story, a testimony, whispered as a compliment between friends... and witnessed as a miracle among servants. Not only made into wine, but the finest quality wine. The first of many miracles that would cause his followers to believe -- that would teach his disciples what to look for, what God wants to bless, what right soil/hearts will yield miraculous harvest.
Perhaps the explanation of Mary's concern lies in the whisper of that compliment. The bridegroom was credited for the wine, so it must have been his responsibility to supply it. For whatever reason, Mary feared his embarrassment. Perhaps it would shame his bride, or his family name, or himself. Perhaps it would negatively label his family, or caused the bride's family to lack confidence in his ability to provide for their daughter. Who knows.
I don't know if it was a desire to save someone from being shamed that moved Christ to perform such a miracle, or if it was the faith of Mary in him as God, or if it was the obedience and integrity of the servants. Perhaps it was all three.
How wonderful God is! How inspiring are all the characters involved in this one incident. If only we could walk with such compassion, such faithfulness, such obedience, such integrity. Perhaps miracles would be something that we actually do and see, rather than merely read about. Perhaps helping people and relieving their misery in the name of Christ would be a daily occurrence, the norm.
Father, I ask that you help us to be more like you in these things, that you would enable us and equip us to reflect your character in all that we do and say and think and feel. So that you will be so pleased with us that you are moved to manifest your presence and your affection among us as never before. So that people will know your love and live with a greater peace and deep-seeded joy as we share your goodness with others. In the name of Jesus we ask. Amen.
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< Message edited by selahgirl -- 11/12/2007 12:32:52 PM >
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