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Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/17/2008 9:43:31 PM
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HisSanctuary
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Do you give spiritual counsel of the opposite gender? Would you refer them to your spouse or invite your spouse to join you? I find mixed gender spiritual counseling a potential hazard? What do you think?
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/17/2008 11:10:56 PM
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sisrev
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You should never, ever, ever, do any kind of spiritual counseling one-on-one with a person of the opposite gender. Even without the more obvious dangers, it can lead to an unhealthy emotional/spiritual dependency & attachment. At the very least it invites speculation and suspicion.
_____________________________
My new blog, A Virtuous Woman
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/18/2008 2:44:50 AM
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KnowJesus
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I agree...In my ignorance, I did this. And the Lord convicted me that I needed someone else, like my husband or a sister with me to counsel a brother in Christ.
We need to be upfront with those who seek counsel. I can't recall the scripture, but I'm fairly sure it says to "seek counsels (plural)."
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/18/2008 8:24:56 AM
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HisSanctuary
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Dear sisrev,
You make a good point! We are human and as such must guard our step. I love the Hannakiah in your avatar... it is beautiful artwork. He prepares a table of splendor for us! Thank for for your insights... and warning. I agree wholeheartedly. Love and Prayers, Karyn
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/18/2008 8:29:19 AM
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HisSanctuary
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KnowJesus
I agree...In my ignorance, I did this. And the Lord convicted me that I needed someone else, like my husband or a sister with me to counsel a brother in Christ.
We need to be upfront with those who seek counsel. I can't recall the scripture, but I'm fairly sure it says to "seek counsels (plural)."
Dear Know Jesus,
I agree... and when we aren't sure or have mixed feelings that lead to conviction in our heart... the Lord gives us a way to escape or a friend that comes along and brings the balance back. How precious is the counsel of His saints that have one eye set to heaven and His heart. Somethings are black and white and I think this is one of them. Thanks for sending along confirmation. Love and Prayers, Karyn
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/18/2008 8:40:32 AM
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rcjames
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So Jesus was wrong when he counsled the woman at the well, because he did not have another woman or one of the diciples present?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/18/2008 12:07:23 PM
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HisSanctuary
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
So Jesus was wrong when he counsled the woman at the well, because he did not have another woman or one of the diciples present?
Thanks
RC
Hi RC,
You make a good point. But I must admit... I am not Jesus, nor are you.
I think the point here is not the single example, of one person, or one time, it is "the practice" of mix gender counsel that I can see as possibly problematic. I have had 2 pastors in my life that were ensnared into adulterous relationships through their practice of spiritual counsel with unhappily married women. I don't think if they had practiced mixed gender counsel or had their wife present, this would have occurred.
Also, behind a closed door, it is possible for anything to be said about an encounter, regardless of the innocence of the party accused. Some people have other agendas that can destroy a ministry, a family and a marriage and it not even be true. This can bring shame on the name of Jesus. The world does look on and cannot understand our motivation for love of Jesus, but they quickly understand moving in on someone.
Jesus also met the woman at the well in a public place. Although he could be criticized for speaking to a Samaritan, a woman, and a sinner, His intentionality and motivation could not be questioned. Most spiritual counsel does not occur in a public place, it occurs privately, thus not like Jesus. I think if one is following in the footsteps of the Master, I would carefully step out of the boat.
btw- I also think this is a greater problem for men than I do women... Because men have sensitive egos and that can be easily drawn in. For a man to say, I should no longer meet with you, appears as a weakness (especially spiritually) thus they are ensnarned. A woman can say that, because we have no problem being the weaker vessel, though they too have put themselves in a compromising situation that they must somehow back out of. Would it not be more prudent to not go there in the first place?
In His Service,
Karyn
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/18/2008 1:52:05 PM
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PastorPatricia
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When I took my ministry training courses we were told that you never ever counsel a person of the oposite sex behind a closed door. I think this is good and wise advice. Have someone in the next room and keep the door open. I protects both of you.
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/18/2008 2:15:52 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4279
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
So Jesus was wrong when he counsled the woman at the well, because he did not have another woman or one of the diciples present?
Thanks
RC
No...but it was a one shot deal. He did not continue to meet with just her.
The same for the disciples...they did not have long counseling relationships with women.
IMO, women counseling women is biblically sound and one of the reasons for Titus 2.
My husband is a biblical counselor (as am I) and he meets with a woman once as an intake session, gathering as much info as possible. He then telsl them why he does not counsel women and that there are two women (working under his authority/guidelines so to speak as a counselor) available to counsel with her.
There is an excellent article called the Tenderness Trap (scroll down to actual article) that gives excellent biblical wisdom imo regarding this topic.
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/18/2008 4:04:56 PM
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rcjames
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I counsel in my living room, on the front proch, or in the Sanctuary of the Church.
If It is a female I am counselling with, I ask if they would like for my wife to join us; if they do she does, if they don't, she does not.
I have been a minister for over 45 years and counselling for 45 years minus one day. I have never had a problem with it. I do not counsel in a closed office, not because of "Sexual" propriety, but because I am a really big man (6'6" and always over 250 lbs.) tight closed places with someone that big is intimadating to some.
I have heard all the reasons for having "Witnesses", etc.; but as for me, I have never had a problem.
I am not dissing those who feel they need the "Protection", simply saying that as for me it has not been necessary.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/20/2008 9:38:17 AM
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redeemedsaint
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I would say no, it is not appropriate and we must avoid the appearance of evil. My mentor who does some counseling does not allow this type of thing to happen.
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Woody
Get off the track cause the freight train is coming - Coach Bobby Lee Duke from Facing the Giants
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/20/2008 10:44:41 AM
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Cloak
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I prefer same gender counseling; I find that it protects you from so many things. Besides, sometimes people think or can have mixed messages as to why we're ministering to them when we are only doing it bc we love the Lord!
So caution is needed at all times.
_____________________________
Blessings!
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/20/2008 5:03:36 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1982
Joined: 8/30/2007
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I understand the concern people feel as well as the situations that occur.
Sometimes women seeking counsel can only receive the counsel from the pastor, such as biblical questions that run really technical and such.
I think people can make to big of a deal out of it and cause dissension in the body by making a big deal out of it.
I also am well aware that there are some in the body who will intentionally attempt to ensnare the opposite sex.
I believe that if we are seeking the Lord's will before an action is taken, we can trust that He will see us through it.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/26/2008 11:24:19 PM
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disciplelife
Posts: 60
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisSanctuary
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
So Jesus was wrong when he counsled the woman at the well, because he did not have another woman or one of the diciples present?
Thanks
RC
Hi RC,
You make a good point. But I must admit... I am not Jesus, nor are you.
I think the point here is not the single example, of one person, or one time, it is "the practice" of mix gender counsel that I can see as possibly problematic. I have had 2 pastors in my life that were ensnared into adulterous relationships through their practice of spiritual counsel with unhappily married women. I don't think if they had practiced mixed gender counsel or had their wife present, this would have occurred.
Also, behind a closed door, it is possible for anything to be said about an encounter, regardless of the innocence of the party accused. Some people have other agendas that can destroy a ministry, a family and a marriage and it not even be true. This can bring shame on the name of Jesus. The world does look on and cannot understand our motivation for love of Jesus, but they quickly understand moving in on someone.
Jesus also met the woman at the well in a public place. Although he could be criticized for speaking to a Samaritan, a woman, and a sinner, His intentionality and motivation could not be questioned. Most spiritual counsel does not occur in a public place, it occurs privately, thus not like Jesus. I think if one is following in the footsteps of the Master, I would carefully step out of the boat.
btw- I also think this is a greater problem for men than I do women... Because men have sensitive egos and that can be easily drawn in. For a man to say, I should no longer meet with you, appears as a weakness (especially spiritually) thus they are ensnarned. A woman can say that, because we have no problem being the weaker vessel, though they too have put themselves in a compromising situation that they must somehow back out of. Would it not be more prudent to not go there in the first place?
In His Service,
Karyn
Excellent HisSanctuary!!
and how "alone" could they have been at a public well? although there is no mention of people bustling around, I am sure it could be implied.
disciplelife
_____________________________
But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. (James 1:22)
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/27/2008 10:28:36 AM
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small_creation
Posts: 341
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: midwest
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Oooh, you're just BAD!
j
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/27/2008 12:15:42 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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I am not saying what other folks should do.
I am only saying that in 45 years of ministering to thousands of folks of the opposite sex; I have never had a problem, not even a little bitty one.
I also must say that the "Very appearance of evil" thingy just does not apply here.
If there are those in your Church that would conjure up something about a Pastor counselling a member of the Churvh as being evel; then those doing the conjuring probably need to get saved.
As I said, for me it is not, nor ever has been a problem. I counsel usually on my front porch (weather permitting) in my living room, or in the Sancutary of the Church. In the Sanctuary I set the one being counseled on a pew and I sit in the pew in front of where they are sitting. It it is a woman I am counselling I always ask if they want my wife or some other lady present and honor their request.
Maybe these Pastors that are so fearful of counselling someone of the opposite sex, should do a little stronger teaching to the congregation as a whole.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/27/2008 12:34:49 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: small_creation
Oooh, you're just BAD!
j
Jk!
Edit:
And I agree with RC that sometimes we just make too big of a deal out of these things. We need to be careful, but not fearful.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/27/2008 12:45:30 PM
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buckifn
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If someone cannot do the job because of temptations with the opposite sex then I would recommend they get counseling or find another career.
Professional standards apply to clery and church leadership as much as to any other segment of the work force.
It's not something I would lose sleep over.
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RE: Spiritual Counsel concern - 9/30/2008 3:07:12 PM
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Lynn_J
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Joined: 9/3/2008
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Our senior pastor is male, our associate pastor is female, so there are two genders to choose from on our primary pastoral staff. If I am faced with counseling someone in my area of ministry who is a male, then I invite my husband to join us. If the counselee is not comfortable with that, then I refer him to a male member of the pastoral staff.
That seems to work in our congregation.
Lynn
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