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Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/21/2009 3:43:52 PM
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raysnchrist
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My understanding on this issue has been well read from each perspective.
Yet, I side with the idea of the line of Seth and Cain.
For one simple biblical fact. Angels are non caporal beings who do not have a sexual reproductive system. They are therefor unable to impact the genetic code of a human being through sexual contact or demonic possession. God can give them the ability to assume the image of a man, but not with the purpose or ability for procreation.
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/21/2009 4:01:47 PM
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Ps103
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What was the question?
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/21/2009 5:37:30 PM
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tsnody2001
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quote:
For one simple biblical fact. Angels are non caporal beings who do not have a sexual reproductive system.
This is a fact? A biblical fact, huh? I would like to see a Scriptural basis for you declaring such a fact.
I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong. But I don't think you can declare this opinion or theory as a fact, especially with Scripture. Unless, of course, you bend, buffet, and reshape one or two verses, as so many people do to justify their far out doctrines. I am interested to see what kind of rabbit you plan to pull out of your hat. Let the show begin.
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Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
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During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/21/2009 6:00:39 PM
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bob97
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quote:
For one simple biblical fact. Angels are non caporal beings who do not have a sexual reproductive system.
I didn't know that...guess I miss it in my bible. Can you tell me where it says that?
In Messiah,
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/21/2009 6:31:56 PM
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ctpruitt
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Yeah, especially when every time an angel is mentioned, he is seen by someone! If they were "non-coporeal" than they could not be seen by anyone. You will have to come up with something else for that.
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/22/2009 9:05:36 PM
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Johnny_
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Please read Genesis chapter 4-7.
sons of God = descendants of Seth
daughters of men = descendants of Cain
So why did the descendants of Seth choose to marry the descendants of Cain? Beauty, beauty, beauty. Obviously not all men, but most men will choose beauty over godliness. Its the fact of life.
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/22/2009 9:30:15 PM
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Johnny_
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Just an FYI. The sons of God can mean either men of God or angels. I believe the context of Genesis 6:1-3 is referring to men of God. Why? Because Genesis 4:26 says the descendants of Seth began to call upon the name of the Lord. It is theoretically impossible for godless men to call upon the name of the Lord because God will not hear them.
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/25/2009 9:41:49 PM
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bob97
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Can someone please explain the following verses?
Psalms 82:1-8 (KJV)
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Job 2:1-2 (KJV)
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
I assume that someone will tell me that these are humans.
In Messiah,
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/25/2009 9:50:40 PM
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Johnny_
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The term sons of God, throughout the OT and NT, have been used interchangeably to describe either men of God or angels of the Lord. In other words, sons of God can refer to either prophets of God or angelic beings. We just need to read into the context of that specific verse.
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/25/2009 10:02:46 PM
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Johnny_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Genesis 6:1-3
Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
This verse should be evidence the sons of God in Genesis 6:1 was referring to the descendants of Seth. Why? Because Genesis 6:3 says the sons of God was flesh. The word flesh, in the Old Testament, refers to the basic material of human and animal life. In other words, anyone born of Adam or born of animal. Yes angels can talk and even take on the shape of human beings. However, nowhere in scripture does it ever reference angels of the Lord as being flesh.
< Message edited by Johnny_ -- 10/26/2009 10:54:43 AM >
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/25/2009 10:54:57 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Yet, I side with the idea of the line of Seth and Cain.
And let me see if I can recall where this line of reasoning ends up -- or at least where some "Christian" sects in the American South take it:
- Sons of Seth: white skin, red blood.
- Sons of Cain: dark skin, yellow blood.
The "Two Seed" / "Serpent's Seed" doctrine provided some of the theological underpinning for the Ku Klux Klan, if I recall correctly. Most of us have heard the expression "red-blooded American," but the alternative is less spoken of!
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/25/2009 11:35:31 PM
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Johnny_
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I would disagree. The reasoning in the OP does not come from religious sects of the American South or Ku Klux Klan. On the contrary, Genesis chapter 6 has been widely controversial within the Christian community and there have been different interpretations from all religious groups.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Wikipedia
There are several theories concerning the identity of the sons of God identified in the Book of Genesis.
Lines of Seth View
One theory is that the sons of God are the descendants of Seth, the pure line of Adam. The daughters of men are then seen as the descendants of Cain. This is the view put forth by the pseudepigraphical work: Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan.
Angel View
A second theory is that the sons of God are angels who came to earth and had children with the daughters of men
Etymology-based
A third theory revolves around the fact that "elohim" literally means "powers" and is, at times, used in the Bible to refer to powerful human rulers. In the Hebrew "Elohim" is God's name but it is a plural word. Even though the name is more often used with the -im plural suffix while still meaning a singular form, the use of "Ha" before the name (which is the Hebrew equivilant of the word "The") transforms the word into strictly plural, though apologists such as Chuck Missler would regard this as an allusion to the Trinity.)
Gods and Cities
A fourth theory relates the "sons of God" to the 70 sons of El and Athirat in the Canaanite tradition of Ugarit, from whose marriage with a race of titanesses (the daughters of man), the 70 nations of the earth were born. Each city or people thus had its own divinity, with whom they had a special covenant (i.e. Ba'al Be'rith = Lord of the Covenant). This marriage of the divinity with the city would seem to have Biblical parallels too with the stories of the link between Melkart and Tyre; Yahweh and Jerusalem; Chemosh and Moab; Tanit and Baal Hammon with Carthage, and may have been celebrated annually after the new year with a hieros gamos or sacred marriage, in which a Qadeshtu (Holy One) took the role of the God's consort, representing the city.
Neither Angelic, Nor Human View
A fifth theory proposes that the "sons of God" were neither angelic, nor human, but an all-together separate kind of being, yet a created type. This view, put forth by David Sielaff of Associates for Scriptural Knowledge, Michael S. Heiser, PhD, and others, maintains that Biblical references to the sons of God indicate unique characteristics that neither angels nor humans currently have entirely.
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/26/2009 3:37:34 AM
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Johnny_
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Genesis 6 - The main point of this chapter is about godliness (or lack thereof). This chapter has absolutely nothing to do with race or the color of your skin.
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 10/29/2009 7:13:15 PM
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agapeflight
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All theories. We simply do not know for sure and there are many such passages in the Bible.
That said it is often possible to make many valid Biblical points while investigating theories about these types of verses, but I think it is easy for those who lack maturity to get too caught up in some of the speculations surrounding things likes this.
For instance recall that Cain named his first-born Enoch and named a city after him. The name means 'initiated.' Think about what type of religion Cain's son might have been inititiated into, one in which sin is worshipped and God cursed? there is alot of food for thought there since we see that by the time of the Flood all flesh had corrupted itself upon the earth.
God bless.
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/4/2009 1:15:32 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raysnchrist
For one simple biblical fact. Angels are non caporal beings who do not have a sexual reproductive system. They are therefor unable to impact the genetic code of a human being through sexual contact or demonic possession. God can give them the ability to assume the image of a man, but not with the purpose or ability for procreation. Actually you are confusing angels with demons. they are not the same class of beings. Angels have bodies and in scripture you never see them trying to clothe themselves with flesh, whether human or animal. OTOH, demons ONLY speak and work thru host beings and according to the story of Legion, they appear to be very uncomfortable if not inhabiting someone or something.
As to the procreation and the requisite sexual organs, there is no scripture that says that. What it DOES say is that in heaven the angels do not marry. Neither do faithful catholic priests, monks and nuns. However they all have the normal male and female parts and could reproduce, if they chose to do so. There is nothing in scripture to say that it is not the same for godly angels.
And besides, the angels that supposedly had relations with human women would be of the fallen kind anyway, would they not? Why would we assume that fallen angels live by the same strictures that godly ones do?
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Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/7/2009 2:32:06 PM
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Herolover
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#1 There is not evidence in the bible that the line of Seth was more godly then the line of Cain. In fact, Enoch who walked with GOD and did not die because GOD took him was of the line of Cain NOT Seth.
#2 In Jewish tradition and the early church it was accepted that this meant angles. It was only in around the 4th century that the idea that this was the "line of Seth" appears. It appears because people were attacking what seemed to be to wild a belief.
#3 The term "Bene Elhohim" which is translated as sons of God is used nowhere in any hebrew scroll or book to speak of human beings. It is used exclusively of Angles.
#4 Read Jude and 2 Peter. Both talk of Angles waiting judgment and Jude talks about Angles in chains? What did the Angles do? They can't be simply fallen Angles because nowhere in the bible does it say that Satan's 1/3 was put in chains. If they were put in chains why wasn't he put in chains also? No he is not in chains. Look around the world, if he is in chains his chain is too long.
#5 It says their offspring, the Nephilim, were in the earth in those days....and after that. Read Numbers and think Goliath. For them to be on the earth after means some of the line of Seth must have survived the flood. This I in now way believe.
#6 The bible says Noah was, "perfect in his Generation(s)." English is a VERY poor language and this is usually mishandled. Perfect is the same word that is used to talk about a sacrificial lamb...without blemish, without spot. Generations does not refer to the time period he lived. This, in hebrew, talks about the ancestry of a person.
So it could easily be translated that Noah's ancestry was without spot or blemsih.
Why should this surprise anyone? Satan knew God was going to deliver man from the seed of the Woman so he set about corrupting that seed so God's prophecy could not come true. It failed.
God prophecied (sp) that Israel would spend 400 years in Egypt and then return to the promised land. Satan had 400 years to prepare a mine field for Israel and this is why when they went to spy the land they came back and where scared because there were Nephilim in the land.
Also, Jesus said that the last days would be as the days of Noah. You talk to any UFO enthusiast about abductions and they will tell you that they don't understand what is going on because the "Aliens" have a deep preoccupation with man's reproductive organs and have even produced "hybrids."
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/8/2009 8:46:57 AM
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2Pillars
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raysnchrist
My understanding on this issue has been well read from each perspective.
Yet, I side with the idea of the line of Seth and Cain.
For one simple biblical fact. Angels are non caporal beings who do not have a sexual reproductive system. They are therefor unable to impact the genetic code of a human being through sexual contact or demonic possession. God can give them the ability to assume the image of a man, but not with the purpose or ability for procreation.
I agree partially. No entirely different kind of specy can produce offspring together. Angles (spiritual beings) and humans (fesh) could not mix together sexually - so much so producing offspring.
However, the sons of God (prehistoric mankind) - created on the 5th day - were the ones who formed a union and married the daughters of man (Adam) and their offspring became mighty man of old - ref. Gen. 6.
God Bless
< Message edited by 2Pillars -- 11/8/2009 8:59:42 AM >
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/8/2009 10:15:16 AM
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bob97
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quote:
I agree partially. No entirely different kind of specy can produce offspring together. Angles (spiritual beings) and humans (fesh) could not mix together sexually - so much so producing offspring.
This seems to be an opinion rather then medical fact. If a spirit being assumes human form what characteristics does it encompass?
The truth is we don’t know, so we should not say that these things are impossible based on opinion.
In Messiah,
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/8/2009 10:45:00 AM
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2Pillars
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I agree partially. No entirely different kind of specy can produce offspring together. Angles (spiritual beings) and humans (fesh) could not mix together sexually - so much so producing offspring.
This seems to be an opinion rather then medical fact. If a spirit being assumes human form what characteristics does it encompass?
The truth is we don’t know, so we should not say that these things are impossible based on opinion.
In Messiah,
Bob
Well, my opinion is based and supported by Scripture while yours seem to be based only on pure speculations or macro-evolution of entirely different kind of species - spiritual beings (with sex organ) & humans producing offspring - which is not scientifically proven fact.
In fact your thought of the matter is contrary to the Scripture -- we are confined to our own kind.
God Bless
< Message edited by 2Pillars -- 11/8/2009 11:05:30 AM >
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/8/2009 1:38:08 PM
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bob97
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quote:
Well, my opinion is based and supported by Scripture while yours seem to be based only on pure speculations or macro-evolution of entirely different kind of species - spiritual beings (with sex organ) & humans producing offspring - which is not scientifically proven fact.
Please show me the scripture that states this and I hope that it's not Matthew 22:30.
In Messiah,
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/8/2009 2:51:39 PM
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2Pillars
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Sure..... here below, for your additional information / knowledge – enjoy your reading.
Genesis 1:21 tells us that every living creature that moveth was created from the water on Day 5 This included the bringing forth of the prehistoric mankind from the water. Genesis 2 tells us of Creatures made from the dust. Some people see this as a contradiction, and falsely assume that God made a boo boo.
They are ignorant of the fact that God (Elohim) originally made every Living Creatures that moved, from the water, on Day 5. The account of the formation of the beasts of the field and fowl of the air, from the Dust, on the 6th Day, is when YHWH or Jesus sqeezed, as a potter would mould clay, and formed living creatures from the dust of the ground.
The creatures made from the dust were identical to those created from the water, and could produce offspring with the creatures from the water. The first Living Being made from the dust was man. Man was made on the 3rd Day before the plants and herbs, after the mist that watered the whole face of the ground -Gen 2:4-7 This gives mankind Preeminence or First Place among all other Living Creatures.
Like the animals made from the dust, man also married and produced children with Beings made from the water. That's where Cain's wife came from, and that is who Noah's grandsons married, on this Planet. Incest is never been a part of God' plan in the multiplication process of humanity. Only willingly ignorant continues to stumble to this truth. We have the DNA of the sons of God (Prehistoric Mankind) and we also have the Human Intelligence that can ONLY be inherited from Adam, the first Human. Yes, we all descended with modifications from a common ancestor, and his name is Adam.
God created every living creature that moveth, from the water, on the 5th Day, and Jesus produced His/their Kind from the dust of the ground, on the 6th Day. Today's arrogant "scientists" can't tell us the difference between those creatures created from the water, and those made from the dust. Only Jesus can tell us of His Kinds, which are identical with the Creatures from the water on the 5th Day.
Of course, the above analogy is only based on my biblical understanding / opinion.
God Bless
< Message edited by 2Pillars -- 11/8/2009 3:13:59 PM >
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/9/2009 9:12:55 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
#2 In Jewish tradition and the early church it was accepted that this meant angles. That was from the pseudopigraphacal Book of Enoch. It was a popular work in the first century. It is referenced in the book of James and is included in the Coptic cannon of scripture.
quote:
It was only in around the 4th century that the idea that this was the "line of Seth" appears. It appears because people were attacking what seemed to be to wild a belief. That was when intelectualism started replacing supernaturalism in the church.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/14/2009 12:25:52 AM
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betterisoneday
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Herolover
#1 ...In fact, Enoch who walked with GOD and did not die because GOD took him was of the line of Cain NOT Seth. This bothers me; I wasn't going to reply at first because I'm not sure it has a whole lot to do with the OP but...
Cain had a son named Enoch (Gen. 4:17); he had a city named after him. Doesn't say anything about his death.
For Seth's line it goes: Seth-Enosh-Kenan-Mahalalel-Jared-Enoch (Gen. 5:6-18). This Enoch was Seth's ggg-grandson and was the one that "...walked with G-d; and he was not; for G-d took him." (Gen. 5:24)
Please note that while I find this topic interesting I do not find it all that important so am not arguing for either side with this post; just making an observation.)
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RE: Sons of God: Line of Seth/Cain or Angels - 11/14/2009 10:51:14 AM
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Johnny_
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Betterisoneday, you are correct. Herolover was in error. But I'm sure it was done unintentionally.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Wikipedia
Enoch (Hebrew: חֲנוֹךְ, Modern Ḥanokh Tiberian Ḥănōḵ; Arabic: إدريس) is a name occurring twice in the generations of Adam. In one reference, Enoch is described as a grandson of Adam via Cain, and as having had a city named after him. The second mention of the name describes Enoch as Adam's greatx4 grandson, through Seth, not Cain, and also states that Enoch "walked with God, and was not, for God took him," thus avoiding death at the age of 365. Additionally, Enoch is described as the father of Methuselah and great-grandfather of Noah (Genesis 5:22-29).
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