Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because of His Children's Sins?
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Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because of H... - 8/3/2008 12:24:00 PM
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gaylel1
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After the death of a high profile pastor's son this week, some commentators are quick to judge the pastor now because of the person's past even though the indivisual was now truly walking with the Lord before his death. This commentator was quick to criticize this man because of how he and his younger son was handling the elder son's death and accused him of self promotion because he asked those of us to get a bumper sticker (the one he designed for the event).
This is the web page where these comments were made on his August 2nd show. When you go to this site, the comments are into four sections.
I believe this man's and his associates comments about him was very, very uncalled for and that the high profile pastor, in my opinion did the right thing because he needed the church's support and the body of Christ in general. And yes, his son was in the right too getting into the pulpit also and letting people know about his brother.
The pastor knew that his eldest son made mistakes. Any pastor would know that their children are not perfect, even though the pastor and his wife raise their children up in the ways of the lord.
But should pastors, even though who are high profile resign from their pulpits becaue of the sins of the children in their pasts? And should pastors because of their greif should stay away from the church, the place where the pastor should get support from their members?
Note to mods: If there is another discussion about this, please either direct this to the discussion or close the thread.
< Message edited by gaylel1 -- 8/3/2008 12:34:33 PM >
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/3/2008 4:01:11 PM
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rcjames
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Scripture states this about an Elders's (Pastor/s) family;
[b](1Ti 3:4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(1Ti 3:5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
(1Ti 3:6) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
(1Ti 3:7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
So I guess the infraction would be a judgment call or whether the verse applies.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/3/2008 4:32:56 PM
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slushie
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I think that when a pastor's kid goes wrong, people tend to look at it more than they would if it had just been a non pastor's kid. Mainly because the pastor is easily seen, and all that stuff...
People just tend to think that if the kid went wrong somewhere, it's the pastor's fault for not bringing him up right. In some cases, this is true. However, I think that in some cases, no matter how much you bring up the kids in the ways of God, some kids ARE going to stray. (I think everyone strays at some point - whether it's very far or very near) There's a point where the kid has to bear the responsibilities of his own actions.
I don't believe that pastors should stay away from the church when they're going through a tough time. That's just weird. The church should be a place for comfort and healing.
I think that it depends on the situation. If it's clear that the pastor is NOT keeping a firm hand on his kids - and that he's NOT raising them up to be God-fearing men and women, then he should resign.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/3/2008 4:56:47 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: slushie
I think that when a pastor's kid goes wrong, people tend to look at it more than they would if it had just been a non pastor's kid. Mainly because the pastor is easily seen, and all that stuff...
People just tend to think that if the kid went wrong somewhere, it's the pastor's fault for not bringing him up right. In some cases, this is true. However, I think that in some cases, no matter how much you bring up the kids in the ways of God, some kids ARE going to stray. (I think everyone strays at some point - whether it's very far or very near) There's a point where the kid has to bear the responsibilities of his own actions.
I don't believe that pastors should stay away from the church when they're going through a tough time. That's just weird. The church should be a place for comfort and healing.
I think that it depends on the situation. If it's clear that the pastor is NOT keeping a firm hand on his kids - and that he's NOT raising them up to be God-fearing men and women, then he should resign.
Well Scripture is very plain that if a Pastor does not have his family in order (thet be the whole family that he is responsible for- wife, non-adult kids) then he has no business being a Pastor until the problem is resolved.
There is no wiggle room here.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/3/2008 6:18:02 PM
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slushie
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Yes -- but I was talking about adult kids. (Whatever.... that's contradictory) At that age the choices they make - they're responsible for those.
If the pastor's kids that are younger than 18 are going around doing drugs and partying with plenty of alcohol late at night, and the parents aren't doing anything about that, then that's a BIG problem.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/3/2008 6:52:46 PM
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buckifn
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I looked at that link and just don't get why anyone would use a "christian" website to call other people "idiots"....whatever other point was trying to be made I missed it by seeing that first.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/3/2008 7:35:25 PM
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semperfidelis
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Regarding 1 Tim 3,
If his children are in his house and under his rule, and his house is not in God's control, then there is a problem that must be dealt with.
If the children are not in his house or they are responsible for themselves, I would question whether they are under his rule and responsibility.
There is a reason why elders are "old". It's easier. The kids are taken care of and there is a proven track record. No one should look down on someone for being young, but age is still to be respected.
Galatians 6 also comes to mind, "1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another."
The one thing worse than sin that I can think of are those who rejoice in the downfall of someone and use a platform to destroy another. When a person has no love, they've missed the point of the Word. If the love of Christ does not come through something, even in correction, I would question the description of "Christian" is accurate.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 10:56:09 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I looked at that link and just don't get why anyone would use a "christian" website to call other people "idiots"....whatever other point was trying to be made I missed it by seeing that first.
I had a hard time with that, too. Seeing that, my eyes just glazed over, and I could not absorb anything more from the site.
With regard to sin in the family of a pastor, there is no denying the Scriptures RC quoted in post 2, but that Scripture should not flow over into the lives of adult children who have left the pastor's home.
I have no idea what pastor lost a son -- I haven't heard about that yet.
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"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 11:03:02 AM
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bluestone
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scripture is very clear. If the child is living in the home, the pastor should step down until the problem is resolved, or he desides to remove the child from his home.
By the way, I think this applies also if an adult child is living in the pastoral home and is engaging in open sin. (parents are aware and continue to let the child live there)
I had a pastor offer up his resignation when his daughter became pregnant out of wedlock. Our church board turned it down, but I always had the utmost respect for that man because he did not hide the situation or make excuses. He did what he had to do.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 11:26:18 AM
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DaveW
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I follow the crowd on this one - living at home under the pastor's (or elder or deacon) roof, then if there are problems he should step down.
No one can be responsible for how someone acts who lives elsewhere except that person themself. In that case he should not be asked to step down.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 1:02:01 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
I had a pastor offer up his resignation when his daughter became pregnant out of wedlock. Our church board turned it down, but I always had the utmost respect for that man because he did not hide the situation or make excuses. He did what he had to do.
I had a teenage daugthter get pregnant, I offered my resignation, the board said no; and I walked anyway.
I was not going to let the board talk me into being disobedient to Scripture.
I spent 2 years not Pastoring and getting my family back in order; went back to preaching and been ministering ever since.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 1:33:56 PM
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bluestone
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this pastor sent the girl to live with his sister.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 3:04:26 PM
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ChelaW
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What is this website all about?! I'm a little outraged at how this pastor calls people "idiots," whether they are false teachers or not. Surely he can be a tad more articulate and tasteful with voicing his opinions.
He seems really judgemental to me, not to mention that he just called my pastor, Bishop T.D. Jakes, a "satanic individual!"
Dispicable!
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 3:30:20 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChelaW
What is this website all about?! I'm a little outraged at how this pastor calls people "idiots," whether they are false teachers or not. Surely he can be a tad more articulate and tasteful with voicing his opinions.
He seems really judgemental to me, not to mention that he just called my pastor, Bishop T.D. Jakes, a "satanic individual!"
Dispicable!
What is the world are you talkiong about?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 4:09:51 PM
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revbob4God
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quote:
What is this website all about?! I'm a little outraged at how this pastor calls people "idiots," whether they are false teachers or not. Surely he can be a tad more articulate and tasteful with voicing his opinions.
He seems really judgemental to me, not to mention that he just called my pastor, Bishop T.D. Jakes, a "satanic individual!"
Dispicable!
I am confused also. I did not see any quotes containing anything about name calling.
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For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 4:53:05 PM
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gaylel1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChelaW
What is this website all about?! I'm a little outraged at how this pastor calls people "idiots," whether they are false teachers or not. Surely he can be a tad more articulate and tasteful with voicing his opinions.
He seems really judgemental to me, not to mention that he just called my pastor, Bishop T.D. Jakes, a "satanic individual!"
Dispicable!
Yeah, and when I heard this person's comments on this August 2nd show, I lost all respect for him. I believe he has a ax to grind as far as certian christian personalities goes and he went too, too far with this one.
And to be honest, it was not his place or his co-host judging this man and his family.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 5:42:05 PM
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revbob4God
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quote:
Yeah, and when I heard this person's comments on this August 2nd show, I lost all respect for him. I believe he has a ax to grind as far as certian christian personalities goes and he went too, too far with this one.
And to be honest, it was not his place or his co-host judging this man and his family.
What man, please? what august second show? I do so apologize, but who are we talking about, Please? A link would be nice, or just advise who is saying these things. Please.
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For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 5:46:57 PM
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revbob4God
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I did go to the link in the original post, but still want to know who this individual is.
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For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/4/2008 7:27:37 PM
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gaylel1
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Rev Bob, the August 2nd show and I've already explained it is in four sections, which they are in mp3 format.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 9:45:44 AM
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revbob4God
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Why thank you, Gayle, but I do not think I stutter when I type. And as for mp3's that is just another gadget I way way way dread the thoought of.
I wanted to know more about the Pastor.
He seems to be attacking a lot of people. It appears that he has a Masters of Divinity, and he blasted a church that I am familiar with on his marquee. The church he blasted is a great church that really ministers to a community that needs their ministry, so it sounds like just another angry person throwing rocks at a lot of people.
This thread bothered me, mainly because I detected that several posters were posting about different things. I sensed a lot of confusion, but a lot of good and wise counsel coming from many posters. After meditation and prayer, I have several suggestions.
The main suggestion, is that if this individual enrages you as much as he appears to, stop listening to him. Find another spiritual leader that better suits your needs.
Suggestion Two. Regarding Bishop Jakes being called a foul name. This is truly unfortunate. Bishop Jakes is a wonderful and Godly Servant of the Lord and his wife is an inspiration to all of us. He is not in any way deserving or warranting of such slander, but knowing T.D., He is probably ignoring this as he would any other great but passing blast of hot wind.
When men and women answer the call to minister the gospel, we occasionally encounter people out there who resort to name calling, especially when we strike a nerve in them for whatever reason. Knowing TD, he struck a nerve, and God Bless him for trying.
I remember years ago, a famous and controversial Preacher who appears to have gotten way too big for his britches with his TV ministry before it folded. This poor misguided individual called Archbishop Desmond TUTU an idiot on one of his national TV opportunities, and it was at that point that I lost all respect for him, and that leads to suggestion three. Led to a lot less stress, and anger in my own life, and Lo and Behold, after a time, the fall occurred, and As usual, God righted that entire situation.
Suggestion Three. Stop watching or listening to this individual. (See suggestion1) Encourage all of your friends to stop listening to this individual. His derived or perceived power appears to be in his "growing" ministry. His "authority" is only "authority" when it exists.
< Message edited by revbob4God -- 8/5/2008 10:21:42 AM >
_____________________________
For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 10:00:36 AM
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ChelaW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: revbob4God
quote:
What is this website all about?! I'm a little outraged at how this pastor calls people "idiots," whether they are false teachers or not. Surely he can be a tad more articulate and tasteful with voicing his opinions.
He seems really judgemental to me, not to mention that he just called my pastor, Bishop T.D. Jakes, a "satanic individual!"
Dispicable!
I am confused also. I did not see any quotes containing anything about name calling.
Sorry if I was unclear in my post  . Here's a better explanation of what I was trying to convey.
If you go to the link that the OP posted: http://www.johnecoleman.org/, scroll down about halfway and it says, "Get the Focus/Article by Charles Reese." The author talks about Bishop Jakes, Dr. Creflo Dollar, then Fred Price.
My issue is not that he's calling Dr. Dollar or Fred Price false teachers (I don't know much about them). My issue is that he's going about it all the wrong way. He comes across as judgemental...he's even name-calling!
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 10:28:26 AM
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revbob4God
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Chela, Thank you little sister, but refer if you would yo my edited post.
God I thank you for your challenges.
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For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
Isaiah 45:18
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 10:55:07 AM
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ChelaW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: revbob4God
Suggestion Two. Regarding Bishop Jakes being called a foul name. This is truly unfortunate. Bishop Jakes is a wonderful and Godly Servant of the Lord and his wife is an inspiration to all of us. He is not in any way deserving or warranting of such slander, but knowing T.D., He is probably ignoring this as he would any other great but passing blast of hot wind.
When men and women answer the call to minister the gospel, we occasionally encounter people out there who resort to name calling, especially when we strike a nerve in them for whatever reason. Knowing TD, he struck a nerve, and God Bless him for trying.
Suggestion Three. Stop watching or listening to this individual. (See suggestion1) Encourage all of your friends to stop listening to this individual. His derived or perceived power appears to be in his "growing" ministry. His "authority" is only "authority" when it exists.
Amen. Amen. And Amen.
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RE: Should Pastors Step Down From The Ministry Because ... - 8/5/2008 11:19:02 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
I am confused also. I did not see any quotes containing anything about name calling.
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Look at the link from post 1 again. It's hard to miss the name calling.
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It's not what you would expect from Christians and a terribly bad example and poor witness to non Christians watching and listening. The devil is having a field-day at the expense of God's church! Very sad and concerning situation.
