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Religion and Tolerance - 11/22/2008 3:50:30 AM
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ohiogirl06
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So, there is this kid (and by kid, I mean 18-20 yrs old, I am at least 18 years older than them, if not more) in my math class that I have been taking this quarter while working my way back into college to finally finish that degree.
He wears this t-shirt from time to time and I have yet to come up with a good "answer" or "response" to the quote on the t-shirt. It makes you think, just haven't come up with anything that I felt was good enough to say.
He and another kid and I often have time to talk before class starts each day, just the 3 of us in the room, and in recent weeks, we have turned our talks more towards Church and God. Its been an interesting quarter in that way, our morning talks. I will miss them next quarter.
Anyways. Here is what the kids shirt says; may not be an exact direct quote, but you'll get the point. Am interested in what responses it may bring out of ya'll.
Here it is, the basic premise of it anyways: "Why is there enough religion in the world to incite wars, but not enough religion in the world to inspire tolerance?"
Thats the basic idea of it. Just curious as to what everyone would say to something like that. I have some ideas forming in my head about what I would like to say in response to it, but haven't quite formed the whole thought yet and there hasn't yet been an opportunity for me to slip it into one of our morning conversations.
Thanks for your ideas and thoughts. Pray for me as I continue to talk with these kids for the short remaining time we have in this quarter. I hope that I am planting a seed in each of them, if not making some further impact on them spiritually.
See ya'll.
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/22/2008 9:07:11 AM
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manda59
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This is my definition of religion: a big heavy overcoat that some people put on to try and cover up who they are.
That's why Christianity isn't (shouldn't be) a religion. It should be about a relationship.
If "religion" just covers up who we are, then no wonder there is not enough to inspire tolerance, because it only alters who we are on the outside, not who we are on the inside. Only Christ can change who we are on the inside and make us brand new creations.
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/22/2008 9:20:46 AM
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JStucki76
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Well, it depends on how he's defining tolerance. If he means getting along with people even when you disagree, then the answer is that not every religion teaches tolerance, and those that do, didn't always.
If he means a sort of "I'm OK, you're OK" attitude, then no religion has ever taught that. But it's not for the purpose of starting wars. It's because when you have the answer to life, you want everyone to know it. The unfortunate fact that some in history have started wars to try to convert people is absolutely wrongheaded, and we're paying the price now. The church has damaged its own credibility. But religion has still done much more good than harm. Atheism has killed far more people than religion. The regimes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and others like them have been based philosophically in atheism.
Religion does not have a monopoly on starting wars. The problem isn't religion. The problem is the human condition and our sinful state.
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/22/2008 10:09:07 AM
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Little_1
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Your friend has a good point. There IS too much 'religion' in the world which leads to wars.
However, relationship with the Lord Jesus is definitely NOT religion - rather it is an active faith and friendship with "I AM" and I hope the Lord Jesus gives you the opportunity to explain this simply and practically with your friend.
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/22/2008 1:24:34 PM
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Ezra
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Because religion is not identical to the New Birth, and some things should not be tolerated.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/23/2008 8:13:37 AM
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deliveredarling
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Religion is man made, spirituality is God made. Tolerance doesn't mean that Christians accept another religion as being absolute. It means we love our brothers as our self despite the differing views. The Bible says "they will know us by our love". Our hands reaching out to the lost even though they may hate us. It means we reach even though we may be persecuted. They won't remember the way we reacted in anger but they will remember if we react in love. Anger and lashing out is the way of the world-I'm right and you are wrong.... The loving response throws them for a loop because it is one they do not know or comprehend easily. People expect the adverse reaction-loving tolerance is unexpected and comes only from the HS, Self induced love is no more than acting and it's disingenuousness will be seen through.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/23/2008 11:16:00 PM
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MrFribbles
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If Christianity has nothing to do with religion, then did God just... Mess up with James 1:26-27?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/24/2008 7:51:46 AM
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deliveredarling
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I;m not sure I understand the question you are asking MrFribbles. The verses post have nothing to do with a denomination but rather tan action oriented, HS filled person.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/24/2008 2:22:02 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I;m not sure I understand the question you are asking MrFribbles. The verses post have nothing to do with a denomination but rather tan action oriented, HS filled person.
I'm not sure why it should have anything to do with denominations. I'm responding to statements like these -
quote:
Religion is man made, spirituality is God made.
quote:
Christianity is a faith, not a religion.
quote:
relationship with the Lord Jesus is definitely NOT religion
quote:
This is my definition of religion: a big heavy overcoat that some people put on to try and cover up who they are.
That's why Christianity isn't (shouldn't be) a religion. It should be about a relationship.
People seem to deny any connection between Christ and religion, but it seems clear from James that this isn't the case.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/24/2008 5:49:24 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Well, all religions aren't about Christ or even Christ centered.
Oh, definitely not. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that.
Basically, all I'm trying to say is that there are elements of our faith in Christ that are religious. I understand why people say things like "It's a relationship, not a religion." A lot of people have been hurt, or know people who have been hurt, by some forms of religion. But our job isn't to run away from that negative image, but instead to correct it. Consider some basic definitions of religion -
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects
(both taken from dictionary.com)
Personally, I don't see anything in those definitions that we should be running from. Now, the reason I make any sort of issue out of this is because when we deny any form of religion, it opens up the door to deny rules. I'm worried that, if this trend keeps up and keeps gaining strength, we'll have a generation of Christians who don't want to be told that the Bible has any rules that have to be followed. They'll begin treating the Bible like the pirate's code - more like guidelines than actual rules, that can be bent or broken if it makes us feel good. I know that's not what anyone where is suggesting, so please don't think I'm accusing anyone of that. But I believe that if the "Relationship, not religion" dogma persists, that could be the road we'll be heading down before too long.
Does that make it any clearer? Or am I just fogging things up more?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/24/2008 6:50:23 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
I am so sick and tired of Christian's being expected to have tolerance for everyone and everything when absolutely no one is expected to have tolerance for Christians.
However irritating it might be, He told us the world would hate us. Hate doesn't equal tolerance on either side.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/24/2008 8:32:47 PM
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dwain
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Me, personally, as I have learned, presenting the true message of the gospel of the forgiveness of sin is demanding. It is demanding insomuch that you will be examined... and referring to the last post, yes, and that too. Some people have no concept of Monotheism or Judeo Christian values, and religion to "them"is just another discipline or philosophy to create order.
Emphasizing grace leaves you open for legalists, and emphasizing commandment keeping would have those leaning more toward grace to become uneasy. These kind of analysis among those who profess Christ, casually or religiously, begin to pale in comparison when we realize that- Though our 5 senses would lead us at times to think, all there is is what can be percieved by them- Prayer in Jesus name, study of the scriptures, and submitting yourself to Christ and Praise of the Father through Him bears witness to the unseen world of our creator. (Romans 1)
Commiting your self to Christ is yielding- yes, in the sense of yielding ALL to His love, and to the obedience of faith. Faith that His blood alone atones for sin. Not (the faith of obedience). God in His wisdom has designed us to need Him. Y'shua, as a man needed his Heavenly Father. In every aspect the gospels show there is no other way than Christ Himself, and how as unique individuals we can do 0 w/o Him.
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http://www.home.earthlink.net/~dwainfred/
Deut. 33:27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/25/2008 6:30:04 PM
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ohiogirl06
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Well, this has certainly sparked some 'debate' between everyone. I haven't asked that many people the question that was on the kids' t-shirt. It does make ya think, and if its done that and you figured out something you hadn't before, then I am glad that I brought it up.
Overall, I like everyone's comments and thoughts. It is interesting to see what the different ideas and thoughts are like.
I see Christianity as a faith and not a 'religion'. Its a very personal thing with me and between me and God. While it is hard to have tolerance for everyone else around us when nobody wants to have tolerance for us, as christians, that is what we are to do. We are to be Christ-like. We don't have to like their behavior or beliefs or lifestyle, but we should not brow beat them for it.
I hope that this posting will continue to provoke thoughts and ideas between everyone and between yourself and God.
Thanks again everyone!
Have a Blessed Thanksgiving!
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/25/2008 7:34:23 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I see Christianity as a faith and not a 'religion'. Its a very personal thing with me and between me and God.
See, this is exactly the sort of thing I'm worried about. Now, I'm not saying you are or would ever do this, but I can easily see some people using this as an excuse to ignore wise correction from concerned fellow Christians. For example, suppose a believer were living with their significant other, and were sexually active, even though they were not married. Some fellow Christians might come along and try and show them, in Scripture, where this behavior is clearly shown to be sinful, but this believer would just shake their head and say, "Sorry, but I don't agree. I appreciate you trying to help me, but my faith is personal, and I don't need your help. God is happy with who I am, and so am I."
Do you see what I'm getting at? Or do you think I'm nuts?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/25/2008 8:33:07 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
See, this is exactly the sort of thing I'm worried about. Now, I'm not saying you are or would ever do this, but I can easily see some people using this as an excuse to ignore wise correction from concerned fellow Christians. For example, suppose a believer were living with their significant other, and were sexually active, even though they were not married. Some fellow Christians might come along and try and show them, in Scripture, where this behavior is clearly shown to be sinful, but this believer would just shake their head and say, "Sorry, but I don't agree. I appreciate you trying to help me, but my faith is personal, and I don't need your help. God is happy with who I am, and so am I."
Do you see what I'm getting at? Or do you think I'm nuts?
I totally see what you are saying and fully agree that we as Christians should hold each other accountable. After all, scripture does tell us to do this. I'm just not so sure that it is a religion issue as much as it is being a follower of Christ.
Religions use all kinds of excuses to get people to do or behave in certain ways. Being a follower of Christ is a heart issue. If we follow Him, it does not matter what man says, it matters what God;s Word says to us.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/25/2008 10:15:29 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
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quote:
If we follow Him, it does not matter what man says, it matters what God;s Word says to us.
So if we go by what God's word says, how do you explain the verses in James that show a clear connection between faith in Christ and a religion that is pleasing to Him?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/26/2008 5:30:46 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
So if we go by what God's word says, how do you explain the verses in James that show a clear connection between faith in Christ and a religion that is pleasing to Him?
I think man has redefined religion. We redefined it to fit it into who we are. Look at all the different denominations. Then look at how the apostles who walked with Jesus acted out the definition of religion at that time. The different religions had gods, the worship itself was a form of a god.
In that sense we are very good at defining religion. For some, it has become a god and is no longer about the God, it's about what man will think and what they will say.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/26/2008 8:10:13 AM
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buckifn
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Jesus didn't come into this world to bring tolerance. He came to bring Salvation. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
People scream rant and rave for tolerance but yet curse blaspheme, despise, and reject the Saviour. Go figure.
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/26/2008 9:45:17 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
Jesus didn't come into this world to bring tolerance. He came to bring Salvation. HUGE DIFFERENCE.
People scream rant and rave for tolerance but yet curse blaspheme, despise, and reject the Saviour. Go figure.
You make a very valid point buckifn, Christ Himself spoke to this;
(Mat 10:34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
(Mat 10:35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
(Mat 10:36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
I do not see a lot of tolerance in this statement of Christ's.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 11/27/2008 10:54:21 AM
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makarizo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
If we follow Him, it does not matter what man says, it matters what God;s Word says to us.
So if we go by what God's word says, how do you explain the verses in James that show a clear connection between faith in Christ and a religion that is pleasing to Him?
our Precher at Grace community hammers this point all the time.
and I find that the understanding of what religion means is vastly different from person to person.
from many conversations I have learned that to one religion means 'a lifestyle one chooses to commit to when they join a community of fellow believers'
or it might mean ' a code, or a set of laws one must follow to be saved'
or someone might think it is ' a silly act one performs to make ohters think they are better than what they really are'
religion is a wardrobe of clean clothes people wear to cover up how dirty they are. it is a monster that lives within christians that gives them the right to throw stones at people, it is the next step after salvation that is necessary for entrance to heaven, ....... the list goes on and on.
when I look at James 1, I think of religion as being defined by the works of my faith.... and not the other way around.
so maybe the word religion's meaning has changed.
_____________________________
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RE: Religion and Tolerance - 12/17/2008 12:50:36 PM
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Deepseeking
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I think the quote just goes to show that the writer didn't really understand "Religion."
Religion is not about tolerance, quite the opposite really. Tolerance is a purview of the secular world, not the religious world.
God, Christ and the Word of God are not tolerant. IMO, it is a very rigid path and while we want to be able to understand other views, we are still commanded to do what we can to get them on the path. People try and put the label of tolerance on religion as a means of making it more palatable to those who are unbelievers.
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