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Propostion Four in California - 11/2/2008 12:03:49 AM
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cih92
Posts: 125
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Proposition Four in California is a measure that would require a physician to notify the parent or legal guardian of a pregnant minor at least 48 hours before performing an abortion involving that minor. What are some good reasons for being in favor of this proposition?
Those who argue against this proposition have come up with the following hypothetical situation: Suppose a teenage girl gets pregnant and she knows that if her parents found out about it, her parents would beat her up. If there were mandatory notification laws, then she would get an abortion from someone who isn't a medical professional or she would have a self-induced abortion. How would you respond to this hypothetical situation?
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RE: Propostion Four in California - 11/2/2008 12:34:02 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1269
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I hope the proposition passes.
As for the hypothetical, it is a straw man argument that tries to come up with preposterous hypotheticals in order to draw attention away from the real issue. You could come up with doomsday scenarios for any law. For example: I think speed limits should be done away with because if I am late getting home for dinner my wife might beat me up.
The law isn't responsible for people choosing to break it. If a girl wants an abortion she might turn to other sources, but that isn't the law's fault, it is hers. If taken to logical conclusions, the argument could go like this: bank robbers are going to rob banks anyway, so lets stop making it illegal. Rapists are going to rape anyways, so lets stop making it criminal. Women are going to have abortions anyway, so just let them do it.
Laws actually have a restraining effect on behavior, believe it or not. During my years of reading testimonies and listening to the stories of women emotionally recovering from abortion, there have been many that specifically said: "if abortion had been illegal I wouldn't have done it". Convenience contributes to frequency.
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"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Propostion Four in California - 11/2/2008 12:56:27 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
Those who argue against this proposition have come up with the following hypothetical situation: Suppose a teenage girl gets pregnant and she knows that if her parents found out about it, her parents would beat her up. If there were mandatory notification laws, then she would get an abortion from someone who isn't a medical professional or she would have a self-induced abortion. How would you respond to this hypothetical situation?
If she knows her parents would beat herr up if she got pregnant, then she should have not consented to sex in the first place. Then she would not have to worry about it,, and not have to worry about any notification laws.
See ,, easy! PERSONAL REPSONSIBILITY.
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Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: Propostion Four in California - 11/2/2008 1:54:41 AM
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the_exterminator
Posts: 57
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in an ideal world, yes, parents should know everything going on in their daughter's life. however, we don't live in an ideal world, and there are definitely girls who would be much, much worse off with their parents knowing. and as for seeking illegal abortions, desperate people will take desperate measures, no matter what the law says.
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RE: Propostion Four in California - 11/2/2008 10:49:17 AM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1021
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
Proposition Four in California is a measure that would require a physician to notify the parent or legal guardian of a pregnant minor at least 48 hours before performing an abortion involving that minor. What are some good reasons for being in favor of this proposition?
Essentially the same prop was voted down by CA voters in 2006 and 2007. This one will fail as well.
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"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Propostion Four in California - 11/6/2008 5:41:54 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7430
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From: East Bay Area
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Prop 4 did fail by a narrow margin. In the past it failed by a much larger margin. So, we are making slow progress.
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
Those who argue against this proposition have come up with the following hypothetical situation: Suppose a teenage girl gets pregnant and she knows that if her parents found out about it, her parents would beat her up. If there were mandatory notification laws, then she would get an abortion from someone who isn't a medical professional or she would have a self-induced abortion. How would you respond to this hypothetical situation?
If she knows her parents would beat here up if she got pregnant, then she should have not consented to sex in the first place. Then she would not have to worry about it,, and not have to worry about any notification laws.
See ,, easy! PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
There is a clause in there for girls who are from abusive homes. "Beating her up" would be abusive. If she is not from an abusive home, I highly doubt that her parents will suddenly become abusive because she's pregnant.
I am pro-life. I have four children. Two of them are girls and one of those girls is still a minor. Even if I were pro abortion, I'd want to know if one of them had an abortion.
The way the prop was set up, the dr. or clinic would call me and inform me up to 48 hours in advance that she was going to have an abortion. Even if I objected, they would still do the abortion if she wanted it done. They are not getting parental permission. They are just notifying the parents.
Even though I'd be totally heartbroken, I'd want to know in case an emergency came up with my daughter.
Back in the '80s I was in high school and I was pro abortion. I remember having a discussion like this in one of my classes. I didn't have any children then. I can remember explaining that I'd still want to know and why.
I love my daughters enough to want to know.
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RE: Propostion Four in California - 11/6/2008 6:58:52 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7430
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From: East Bay Area
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I *think* the 48 hour notification is so that the parents can tell them of any medical history of the girl.
I don't understand the thinking of the world. I don't understand why I get notified every time my child takes a pain killer at school, but they won't bother to notify me if she has an abortion. I had a school tell me once that they do that just in case the child has a negative reaction to the pain killer. I would tend to guess that there would be a far greater chance of a negative reaction from an abortion than from a pain killer.
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