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Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/23/2008 1:48:35 PM
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WildByNature
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How does one recognize a true prophet of God -- one with the gift of prophecy?
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"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/23/2008 2:12:35 PM
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rcjames
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I think you may be trying to mix two things; a Prophet of God (the Office of Prophet;
(Eph 4:11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
and the gjift of prophecy given by the Holy Spirit as He wills;
(1Co 12:10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
The office of Prophet is always right on and if not the prophet is to be killed for using the Name of God.
The gift of prophecy is to be judged by those who hear it as to wherther it is of God or not;
(1Co 14:29) Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/23/2008 9:31:45 PM
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Him4all
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RC,
I have a little different view. The prophets being judged/killed was supposedly an OT punishment. But in the NT the prophesy or the words they give is to be judged. If they aren't accurate then you don't trust them or "withdraw from" them.
You apparently quoted KJV for 1Co 14:29 and the word judge there is diakrino which means "separate" or scrutinize, or actually "withdraw from". The word to actually "condemn/punish" someone is the word krino.
RSV/NIV 1CO 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
I think the government would have a little problem with the churches who don't even believe in prophets killing them all for being false, based on that ignorant position. Then there'd also be the debate as to whether the ones who are accepted by some circles are 100% correct or not. I don't know of any...do you?
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/23/2008 10:04:51 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I think you may be trying to mix two things; a Prophet of God (the Office of Prophet;
(Eph 4:11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
and the gjift of prophecy given by the Holy Spirit as He wills;
(1Co 12:10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
Not being one who believes that the "office of Prophet" is valid today, how is one to recognize one who has the gift of prophecy?
If someone claims that God spoke to them and gave them a word meant for you, how do you know if it truly is the word of God?
quote:
The office of Prophet is always right on and if not the prophet is to be killed for using the Name of God.
The gift of prophecy is to be judged by those who hear it as to wherther it is of God or not;
(1Co 14:29) Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
In 1Cor 14, and elsewhere, it appears such prophecies are uttered to the church in general, not individuals -- and that such prophecies are for the edification and exhortation of the church in general, not individuals.
In addition, it appears that "the other" who is to "judge" the prophets who spoke, are other prophets. After all, aren't the spirits of the prophets subject to the prophets? (1Cor 14:32)
Yet, on what is such "judgment" based?
If we aren't prophets, who are we to judge such prophecies?
What is it to prophesy? Is it a word to an indiviudal on how to handle a situation or is it a foretelling of a divine event?
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/24/2008 3:10:20 AM
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alyah155
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All the prophets that have ever been -- have come and gone. They have said all that needs to be said, there is nothing new under the sun.
Study all the prophets, then you won't need a new one. Study all that they say.
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/24/2008 1:53:24 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: alyah155
All the prophets that have ever been -- have come and gone. They have said all that needs to be said, there is nothing new under the sun.
Study all the prophets, then you won't need a new one. Study all that they say.
Thanks alyah, I do not believe in the office of Prophet today either, yet what about the gift of prophecy?
I'm looking for someone to start at the beginning and tell me what this gift is and how we, who are not prophets, are to recognize it as being the word of God?
Can anyone help? Or, should I just dismiss anyone who claims to have this gift?
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/24/2008 2:16:48 PM
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alyah155
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Anything said, by any person in todays realm is not prophecy. It is soothsaying, fortune telling or foretelling. Does not God tell you to stay away from that?
So since there is nothing new under the sun to prophesised about, what in the world would someone be telling you? That your dog has fleas?
Take God for what God says, "I change not." and take Jesus for what Jesus says...."FOLLOW ME." If Jesus didn't say it, then don't believe it.....if the party speaking cannot point directly to Jesus, then don't believe them. Many false prophets will arise. Only those attesting to Jesus will be the real ones...use the litmus test. If it doesn't line up with what Jesus says, then it is not from GOD. Anything else is like a horoscope, and NO ONE can tell the future.
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/24/2008 6:19:37 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: alyah155
Anything said, by any person in todays realm is not prophecy. It is soothsaying, fortune telling or foretelling. Does not God tell you to stay away from that?
Yet, there is a gift of prophecy given to the saints by God. God does not tell us to stay away from those who have this gift.
Or, are you saying the gift no longer is valid, also?
quote:
If Jesus didn't say it, then don't believe it.....if the party speaking cannot point directly to Jesus, then don't believe them.
These parties are of the Pentacostal persuasion. Are you suggesting I just dismiss all Pentacostals?
quote:
Many false prophets will arise.
Which brings up another point. The term "false prophets" does not refer to those who give false prophecy, but rather those who hold themselves out to be prophets when they are not. Just as the antichrist holds himself out to be Christ, but he isn't.
So, one with the gift of prophecy could give a false prophecy. But, how can God's word be false?
If the gift is valid, it seems contradictory. How can a word from God be false? And, according to Paul, only a true Prophet can judge what was prophecied. So, where does that leave us? It would seem that either we all have this gift or none of us have it.
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 11:36:33 AM
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LBolt
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Then I guess what Paul wrote about in Ephesians 4:10-16, is in error! I guess Agabus wasn't a real prophet nor was Philip's daughters! The reason we don't stone anymore is because Christ saved us from the "law of sin and death" not referring to the Torah but rather the death penalty incurred for breaking it.
Besides, If I killed a false prophet today, I'd be brought up on criminal charges. LOL
If there are false prohets then there must be some true ones out there! LOL
Revelation 11:10, speak of at least two prophets in the end-times and as far as I know we are still in the end-times so there must still be true prophets. If they all died out with the first apostles as is commonly taught then John must of "missed it" or the one WHO inspired him was "off" as well.
Let's continue to study our Bibles and leave the man-made doctrines alone. One of them being that there are no more prophets!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 12:09:47 PM
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mcleod
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quote:
Anything said, by any person in todays realm is not prophecy. It is soothsaying, fortune telling or foretelling. Does not God tell you to stay away from that?
So since there is nothing new under the sun to prophesised about, what in the world would someone be telling you? That your dog has fleas?
You have got to be careful about that because there are two gents who walk the face of the earth and do prophecies in the last days and real miracles. Yet because some disagreements with them, they died and come back to life in a few days later. So there could be legitimate prophets out there in this world. And Benny Hill is not one of them nor is Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, And one who would open their mouth and insert foot.
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 12:11:37 PM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Let's continue to study our Bibles and leave the man-made doctrines alone. One of them being that there are no more prophets!
In my study of the Bible I come across Eph 2:20. It says that
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,
20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Built is past tense. Once a foundation is built, it cannot be added to. The offices of Apostle and Prophet CEASED in the first century, when the canon of Scripture was closed
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 12:51:32 PM
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LBolt
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I don't think the church is fully perfected as Eph. 4:11-14 describes so there are Apostles today and prophets. Like I said before there has to be at least 2 prophet otherwise Revelation is a lie.
quote:
You have got to be careful about that because there are two gents who walk the face of the earth and do prophecies in the last days and real miracles.
I agree!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 12:54:12 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Revelation 11:10, speak of at least two prophets in the end-times and as far as I know we are still in the end-times so there must still be true prophets. If they all died out with the first apostles as is commonly taught then John must of "missed it" or the one WHO inspired him was "off" as well.
These two witnesses who will prophesy are believed to be OT Prophets -- most commonly Moses, Elijah, or Enoch.
Still, that does not help answer my question about the gift of prophecy -- if it is valid and how do we recognize one who truly has the gift.
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 12:59:02 PM
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LBolt
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Yes it is valid today! Just check the word of God and that person's track record more importantly their character. As far as the two witness's are concerned, when Malachi prophesied about Elijah's return in the last days, which we know was John the Baptist, whose to say that this is a literal fulfillment of Elijah actually coming?
John was not Elijah incarnate! He came in the same spirit as Elijah!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 1:01:43 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
I don't think the church is fully perfected as Eph. 4:11-14 describes so there are Apostles today and prophets.
The offices of Apostle and Prophet were given for the "mending of the saints", not for the perfection of the church -- according to Eph 4:12.
Do you believe in the distinction between the "office" and "gift" ?
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 1:04:19 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Yes it is valid today! Just check the word of God and that person's track record more importantly their character.
Biblically speaking, only a prophet can judge one who prophecies. And, it has nothing to do with character.
So, if one came to me today claiming God spoke to them a word intended for me, how am I to judge this person if I am not a prophet and their track record is not available?
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 1:07:54 PM
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LBolt
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I believe, without my Strong's in front of me the "perfecting" is the maturation of the saints.
The person in the "office" has to operate in that gift frequently in order to operate in the office.
Pastoring- the person who called to this office had better know how to properly divide the word of God adhere to the guidelines listed in Timothy and Titus and have a geniune concern for God's flock. As with any "ministry gift."
Do you see what I mean about Elijah?
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 1:11:30 PM
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LBolt
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As far as judging a prophet the woman at the well discerned that Jesus was a prophet!! Was she a prophetess?!
How did she know? "He told me all that I ever did", was her testimony.
Jesus was held as a Prophet among the people that's why the religious leaders were afraid to do anything to him.
I think Deut. 5,6 or 7 gives instruction on prophets. And yes we are to check their character. The should lead one to God and conformity to His will.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 1:17:21 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
I believe, without my Strong's in front of me the "perfecting" is the maturation of the saints.
The word "perfecting" is katartismos, meaning: furnishing, equipping, mending. When compared to other scripture for interpretation the best meaning is "mending". Basically, its getting the saints ready for ministry.
quote:
Pastoring- the person who called to this office had better know how to properly divide the word of God adhere to the guidelines listed in Timothy and Titus and have a geniune concern for God's flock. As with any "ministry gift."
According to scripture, the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Thus, only a prophet can judge what was prophecied. Not just one who has a "ministry gift".
quote:
Do you see what I mean about Elijah?
I understand that John came in the spirit of Elijah. I also understand that if the people would have believed he was Elijah, then he would have been Elijah. In the Trib, whether or not it is truly Elijah will be determined by their belief as to who he is.
Regardless, the two Trib witnesses are undoubtedly OT Prophets, not a prophet of today.
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 1:24:32 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
As far as judging a prophet the woman at the well discerned that Jesus was a prophet!! Was she a prophetess?!
How did she know? "He told me all that I ever did", was her testimony.
Jesus was more than just a Prophet -- neither was Jesus prophesying to her. Anyone can recognize Jesus for who He is if God reveals it to them and they choose to open their eyes.
A prophet does not reveal the past, but the future.
quote:
I think Deut. 5,6 or 7 gives instruction on prophets. And yes we are to check their character. The should lead one to God and conformity to His will.
So we are to use OT instructions to point out NT prophets?
What if you are already a Christian and one who claims to have a gift of prophecy gives you personal advice claiming its the word of God, yet such advice goes against what you believe God spoke to you directly?
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 1:31:19 PM
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LBolt
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You are entitled to your own opinion on this one. As far as the maturation of the saints is concerned those definitions are right in line with what a man or woman of God is to do.
quote:
Pastoring- the person who called to this office had better know how to properly divide the word of God adhere to the guidelines listed in Timothy and Titus and have a geniune concern for God's flock. As with any "ministry gift."
According to scripture, the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. Thus, only a prophet can judge what was prophecied. Not just one who has a "ministry gift".
I did not refer to only those with a ministry gift can judge prophesy, I was simply illustrating what a pastor would look like. I think you are referring to I Cor. 14, however, when you study history, when Jeremiah or any of the prophets had an oracle from God, it was written down and weighed in light of Torah and if it came to past it was judged as valid, therefore you don't have to be a prophet to just whether or not something is "of God or not."
They were geniune prophets because foretold true events as well as forthtold of the ills of their days and called people back to God.
See, the body of Messiah operates mainly from a westernize, non-Hebriac mindsets and we tend to categorize the Bible. Therefore we make assertions that "this is done away with" or "Christ fulfilled this so it's nolonger valid today" kind of arguments. My Bible say Jesus today, Yesterday and forever more...
< Message edited by LBolt -- 2/25/2008 2:09:21 PM >
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 2:00:57 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Built is past tense. Once a foundation is built, it cannot be added to. The offices of Apostle and Prophet CEASED in the first century, when the canon of Scripture was closed
Since when was laying a foundation the completion of a structure? If that was true, there would just be a lot of basements.
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love.ben
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 5:42:40 PM
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somemormonguy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Since when was laying a foundation the completion of a structure? If that was true, there would just be a lot of basements.
I wish more people used that logic. 
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 6:00:43 PM
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WildByNature
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
I did not refer to only those with a ministry gift can judge prophesy, I was simply illustrating what a pastor would look like.
So, what does a what a pastor would look like have to do with judging a prophet?
quote:
I think you are referring to I Cor. 14, however, when you study history, when Jeremiah or any of the prophets had an oracle from God, it was written down and weighed in light of Torah and if it came to past it was judged as valid, therefore you don't have to be a prophet to just whether or not something is "of God or not."
According to verse 32, you do have to be a prophet to judge prophecy. And yet again you are referring to OT prophecies not NT prophecies. Many people in the OT did not live to see many of the prophecies fulfilled -- such as the Messianic Prophecy. So, waiting to see if it comes true seems a bit much to me.
quote:
They were geniune prophets because foretold true events as well as forthtold of the ills of their days and called people back to God.
So is that the only thing a true prophet does? A true prophet will not tell you "God wants you to know ..."?
quote:
My Bible say Jesus today, Yesterday and forever more...
But it doesn't say prophets today, yesterday and forever more ...
< Message edited by WildByNature -- 2/25/2008 7:10:42 PM >
_____________________________
"Stop being afraid! Just keep on believing." (Mark 5:36 ISV)
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RE: Prophets and The Gift of Prophecy - 2/25/2008 6:06:48 PM
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Him4all
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"The spirit of the prophets being subject to the prophets" has nothing to do with "only prophets judging another prophets 'word'."
The context of that verse is in the 'all things being done decently and in order' 14:33. And it isn't just dealing with individuals giving prophesy to another individual standing nearby 14:30. (since "you may all prophesy" 14:30). It is also dealing with the 'order' of prophets giving a prophetic word for the church. Scripture says "you may all prophesy", that certainly doesn't make 'you all' prophets. That makes no more sense than me saying I have the fivefold ministry gift of teacher in the church because I teach my kids. Or, I have the fivefold gift of evangleism because I led one person to the Lord.
The office of the local prophet speaks for the direction of the local congregation. Or maybe I should have said prophets since the church at Corinth had at least three prophets according to Paul 14:29. But no prophet should stand up and interrupt the church service and say he couldn't refrain from giving the word because he was too moved by his spirit to keep quiet. Prophets are subject to things being done decently and in order too, and are to contain the zeal of their spirit to speak what The Spirit annointed them with.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
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