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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

In all fairness, there was a secular "God" 300 years ago that many Deists accepted. Many of those Deists today are now Atheists; thus the change in today's language.

Note that there is no mention of Jesus. Also note that Washington refers to the "Lord and Ruler of Nations", something that some might even attribute to the "god of this age" if Washington were not considered an orthodox evangelical Christian.

It is sad that the language has changed, but I am not sure that Washington was referring to the God that Christians worship. If he is referring to another "god", then perhaps we should be grateful that the language has changed.

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ORIGINAL: rcjames
It really gives the human secularist a diaper rash that our founding fathers had faith in God and relied on Him for guidance in the establishment of our Country.

Anyone who will take the time to read the writings of our founding fathers and not rely on leftist atheistst blogs will find that there was great faith in God, and His Son Jesus as our Savior.


Thanks
RC

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ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames
It really gives the human secularist a diaper rash that our founding fathers had faith in God and relied on Him for guidance in the establishment of our Country.

Anyone who will take the time to read the writings of our founding fathers and not rely on leftist atheistst blogs will find that there was great faith in God, and His Son Jesus as our Savior.


Thanks
RC

The fact was that Washington was a nominal Christian, at best. You realize he was also a Master Freemason, right? I am not trying to pick a fight with the Masons, here, but I think many Christians would be troubled if they were asked to make a blood oath to "the lightbearer" and then later climbed the ranks to figure out more about the being many higher-up Masons thought this lightbearer ("Lucifer" if translated into Latin) really was.

The Deist "god" that the country acknowledged in the 1700s and 1800s wasn't necessarily the God that sent Jesus- and Washington refuses to acknowledge Jesus in his address. We need to be careful not to compare the secular god of early America to the God who sent Jesus- or at the very least, we should not be comparing him to other vaguely-related sounding things like "the lightbearer". God is only God if Jesus is part of God.

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ORIGINAL: litfire2000
On this subject, you are right. It is a myth that the United States is or ever was a "Christian nation". The Founding Fathers did not establish a Christian Theocracy. They established a Federal Republic. Further, in the Constituiton, they made provision against an establishment of religion, in other words, there would be no official ruling church such as how The Church of England is to England (the Church of England was more powerful in those days than today). I believe this was a wise thing to do.

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ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

What is so threatening about our founding father's relationship to God and how that influenced the way they governed?

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I'm not threatened, although I find it a little intriguing that a rationalist like Washington would be as involved in the supernatural as some of the dominionists claim. It's clear the founding fathers weren't Atheists- they were Deists, Unitarians, and occasionally Christian with a few Atheists mixed in. We're certainly not an atheist country nor a humanist country, but the evidence suggests that our government was mostly a secular one that occasionally mentioned the secular god.

And that's perfectly fine- it's the generally accepted history. Sure, there are always exceptions- dominionists can find examples of Christian-sounding statements coming from even Ethan Allen, and I'm sure I can find a quotes that make John Adams look like an atheist. I guess the problem comes when people assert that the founding fathers were Christian and use this as an excuse to start moving us in the direction of theocracy- which ultimately makes Jesus responsible- in the eyes of future historians- for a human government that is ultimately under the influence of the god of this age.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud
The problem comes from calling Washington a 'rationalist', which he absolutely was not, or asserting that only an 'occasional' Christian was mixed in the Founding of our nation. Every Founding Father, with perhaps the exception of Jefferson, would have readily called themselves a Christian - and the word 'Deist, while often applied in retrospect, while certainly not being equal to a modern Evangelical, was not in the leastwise 'secular', and the basic tenets of what we now call Deists would have appalled a modern Secularist.

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So it is important to understand the terms as they were applied at that time, not as they are understood now. When one does this, one finds very few resembling secularists in the origin of our country, and one finds many men who believed our country was the product of Divine Providence - and whom believed we should not forget this fact - which apparently some have.

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ORIGINAL: Marcus.

Wow Has this gone far afield. All I was doing was trying to show the difference in attitudes to a national day of thanksgiving or prayer at the beginning of our country and today. They didn't create or attempt to create a theocracy but calling for a day of prayer didn't violate the intent of our Constitution or cause widespread convulsions either.

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Well, he is certainly placed as an ENTJ by the Meyers'-Briggs analysis. I'm sure both of us can come up with our quotes about Deism or Christianity, but it's fair to say that Washington was a nominal Christian, at best, and most of the founding fathers were either Deists or Unitarians (not Christians.)

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And there were many- if not most- who took a blood oath to the "lightbearer" and had a real struggle mentioning Jesus as savior in public (with the exception of an overused quote from John Adams). One could just as easily make a case that they were Satanists by orthodox evangelical standards.

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John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |

Samuel Adams:“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

Benjamin Franklin:
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."