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Please Help with In Laws! - 10/29/2009 5:30:11 PM
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Agenias
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2005
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Hi,
I am really stuck as to what to do right now. My mother in law is not a personable person. I've tried to be kind to her as much as possible even with her blow ups. I've learned that I have Lyme Disease one year ago after having been misdiagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome 13 years ago. I am almost 31 years old now.
My MIL blew up at my husband on the phone 2 weeks ago when she learned he had a vasectomy. It was a very difficult decision for us, and we did it because our oldest child (who is 8) contracted Lyme Disease from me and has had issues with different things growing up. There is a 50% chance that the child will get it from the mother, and we would rather adopt another child when I am well than risk the baby getting Lyme and possibly very sick from me.
We have 3 children and I got worse with each pregnancy, and didn't know I had Lyme (had a lot of symptoms, but did not know they were Lyme symptoms).
After my MIL blew up she told my husband that I do not have Lyme disease but am 'faking' it so we don't come to their house! He told her she was wrong, ect.
We tried to talk to her a few days later, bringing over a positive blood test, ect and she stated that a positive test would not change her mind...she said it is her 'opinion'. She said that I was probably sick due to some sin in my life, ect...yet her son (my husband) does not have diabetes due to 'sin', but due to familial history and said something about God trading him diabetes for intelligence??
It was very bizzare, and I tried to remain calm and resolve things as my husband wanted them to be resolved. I asked MIL what I can do to be a better DIL to her ect. She denied ever having said that I was 'faking' an illness. Well, I learned later that she had said that same to someone right after I was diagnosed, a year ago...I cannot imagine how many times she has said it to others.
She said her sister has MS and she doesn't believe it either, called her sister 'lazy', said if she is in a wheelchair, THEN she will believe it.
I cannot understand this woman, she told us our religious beliefs were crazy, she claims to be Christian and we are as well. I was confused and hurt and she said many other things that I don't care to repeat, but were bizzare, lied about several things she has said and such.
This has been affecting my health, I had started to really turn the corner with treatment and backslid last week having a fever for 12 days in a row.
I don't want her to be more angry if we decide to not communicate with them for several weeks, but at the same time, I am learning that I need to have a lot of peace and quiet while I do these treatments as they can make me feel pretty sick. I don't trust her around my kids now, she said some rude remark to our eight year old which he later told me about.
Do we just ignore them until I am feeling better which will take at least 3-6 more months??
I just don't have the energy right now to deal with such negativity! My husband and I were getting closer than ever as I am becoming a much more energetic, loving person because I am feeling so much better than I have since I was a teenager..it just feels like evil is trying to rip us apart...his parents were saying things like, "Well, it doesn't matter if SHE doesn't want us to have the kids, they are your kids too, so you can do what YOU want" to my husband, trying to split us up.
I have been on pins and needles and am underweight again from the stress when I had finally gained weight. I am so afraid that if I do or say the wrong thing, who knows??! My husband says that he loves me and would never leave me regardless of what they say, but I am so afraid. He did not really defend me even when his mom told me that I have 'warped' her son's mind, claimed I said things I never said...like that they were bad parents...the thought has never crossed my mind! She somehow couldn't 'remember' who told her that! I know my husband loves me, but I would definitely defend him if my parents were telling lies about him, ect, I understand he is a very quiet person though.
I do not want to gossip, so I will delete this post when I get some answers...I just want to remain Christian in this but am so afraid of going back into myoclonus episodes where I appear to have a seizure, it's very scary and I feel very strange and slow after it happens. I have a 3, 6 and 8 year old and I want to LIVE knowing what has been wrong all of these years!
Thank you
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/29/2009 5:47:38 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1451
Joined: 3/13/2009
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In my opinion you need to cut off ALL contact with such poisonous people until you are well enough to see them again and even after that they need to be given strict boundaries about what they are or are not allowed to say, or you will stop contact again.
What you and your husband do in your marriage is none of their buisiness.I REALLY hope that your husband stands up for you when they say these awful things.He needs to protect you at this time and stand between you and them and if that means no contact then that is what he needs to do.You both need to sit down and agree on what you need to do and what boundaries you need to set. Try reading the book called 'Boundaries' by John Townsend together. it is very good and helpful.
We have had some similar problems with my mother in law who fortunatetly for us lives in Australia. When we went to visit her 3 years ago, only a year after we married,(a second marriage for both of us) she said some awful things to my husband about me and tried her very hardest to get him to leave me. She used tears, manipulation, flattery and many other weapons to cause such distress and hurt. She still hasnt let him go and he is 53!
This totally ruined our time there, caused hurt between my husband and I,and has meant that we have only very occasional contact,and will never go to see her again as she has never admitted to what she did or appologised.
Some parents are truly toxic and I once heard a wise man on god tv say that sometimes the only way that we can honour our parents is to keep away from them.
You need to put your health and family first and they need to let their son go to live his own life.You are his family now and not them.
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/29/2009 6:11:21 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2218
Joined: 9/26/2007
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(((Agenias)))
This is my non-medical non-professional opinion, Agenias: your MIL is nuts. Toxic. Destructive.
The word honor in "honor your parents" means to give heavy consideration or to weigh. I'm guessing that means we listen and then decide if they have words/actions worth keeping or not. I think you already know.
Your health is being effected by this woman's relationship with you, and your husband and children need you healthy. You have to choose her or your family to pour your life into, and God says we leave parents and cleave to our mates. I'd back waaaaaaaay off. If your inlaws have food and a roof over their heads, I'd say your obligation is fulfilled. If they need help, hire someone to help them, don't you do it. Send cards on birthdays and holidays and be elsewhere. MIL sounds like she'll be mad if you show up or don't show up, talk to her or don't talk to her, breathe or don't breathe. So pick the one that lets you give your all to your husband and children. They are God's job for you, not her.
Talk to your husband and tell him you don't have the strength to fight off his mother anymore and you need him to stand between you. Then back off and let him discover his role as protector. Since he's been shaped by her he may have a very hard time freeing himself; give him lots of room (I never dealt with my toxic, child-abusing parents until they started in on my child, and then I went ballistic and shook off the chains).
You and your husband need to be in agreement on all of this, so sit down and talk it over after the kids are in bed. Give him room to think startling new thoughts.
Go take care of the family God has given you primary responsibility for, and close the door on what you can't fix. God bless you and heal you, dear.
_____________________________
"Through Gates of Splendor" by Elizabeth Elliot
"Federal Husband" by Doug Wilson
www.biblegateway.com for online concordance (I use it daily)
"Passion and Purity" by Elizabeth Elliot
And I think chickens are really funny
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/29/2009 7:44:51 PM
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Agenias
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2005
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Thank you both very much for your replies/personal stories! I was feeling the same way as you about stopping contact, but my husband got very upset the other night and said he was afraid his mom would die without ever having known the kids. I don't want to cause him more stress, but on the other hand I don't feel it's selfish if I need time for ME right now! He completely believes I have lyme, even MIL said that she has noticed a big change in me over the past few months, but she still wouldn't say I have Lyme.
I don't want to pressure my husband and I feel like I am somewhat, I guess I just want to be sure that he will protect me from them like you guys were saying. We've talked to her twice now and neither time did he say much. At one point his mom was telling him, "Just spit it out! Say what you have to say! I know there's something", but he just kept saying I don't know!
Actually I started thinking MIL had a personality disorder. My SIL had said a few things about her mom, such as her mom didn't like her fiance so she refused to come to the wedding and never has apologized (they are still married 13 years later). I asked SIL about it or if she'd ever wandered. SIL said that her mom always made her feel 'different' than her brothers growing up.
SIL told her mom what I said and MIL was very angry! I wasn't trying to be mean, I really think she has one, I still don't know why SIL said anything about it...although when we talked with FIL and MIL, SIL was there and I was starting to feel really weird/bad.
I begged my husband to leave and we started too, then they started talking again. I again asked HUbby to PLEASE, let's go! I didn't feel well and this was going in circles (we'd been there for 2 hours!). SIL said, "Don't you see what she's trying to do (while pointing at me). She doesn't want you to talk when you have something to say, I know you do! Don't listen to her!"
I felt like I was in a dream...I couldn't believe what was happening.
Within 5 mins, the left side of my body began jerking and the tears came and hubby had to help walk me to the car until it was over because I didn't want to give MIL the 'satisfaction' of seeing me like that, as she said if she saw that happen to me, then MAYBE she would believe I was sick.
I am still feeling hurt by my husband's lack of reaction...I feel guilty for it, but I just can't believe he did nothing during this whole thing, it was just crazy!
I do think that he has grown up with these people and they didn't let their kids think much for themselves from what he has described.
I don't know...I appreciate your comments and I completely agree, maybe after my husband reads them, he will also agree...
Thank you!
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/29/2009 8:12:44 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1451
Joined: 3/13/2009
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Your mother in law does know the kids, She knows them now and if she wants to continue to know them then she will need to change and keep to boundaries that you set.However I do feel even more from your second post that she is definatetly contributing to your ill health and that is wrong. She is causing you stress and is also affecting your marriage. She must not be allowed to carry on doing this. It is terrible. I know a couple who counsel many couples who have marriage problems. They see many couples who are on the verge of divorce over such issues as this with parents.
Why does your husband think that she will die anyway. is she very old or ill? We are talking about a few months away and then, if she will behave in a civilized way, she can see you again.Anyhow who is more important you or her?Some people actually move to get away from toxic parents.Maybe that is a possibility?
Sadly men are often bad at standing up to controlling parents. In Australia I was very sad (and angry)that my husband (who is a lovely man) didnt stand up for me more, but he does find her controlling and manipulative behaviour hard to deal with,and sadly no one has ever stood up to her ever,so she has got worse and worse over the years. The main reason he came to the UK 22 years ago was to get away from her.
I tried to challenge her by letter but she freaked out and accused me of allowing Satan to control me. The thing is that I am the first perosn to stand up to her and boy did she hate that. However it needs to be your husband who does this and not you in my opinion.
Maybe if he cannot bring himself to speak to them face to face, he could write them a letter explaining to them what needs to happen and what you have both decided.
I really dont understand how some people allow their spuses to be treated so bady. If any memmber of my family treated my husband as you have been treated,(or as I was treated) I would stand up for him very strongly and would refuse to see them again unless they drastically changed their behaviour.Even then I would only see them under strict conditions. He and my kids are my priority.I would never stand for disrespect or rudeness to my husband from anyone.
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/29/2009 10:06:28 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 804
Joined: 11/21/2007
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If I were you, considering your medical condition, I would not put myself in that place again. I would refuse to see her and refuse to allow my children to see her. If you husband wants to go that is his choice. If he gets upset I would firmly state that this is what you need right now and you are willing to revisit the matter in several months when you are better. When and if it is revisited, I would not resume contact unless firm boundaries are in place. One which would definately be that if she spoke to you again like that, you would immediately leave. Immdediately.
To be honest, I would probably just cut contact altogether. That is what we had to be willing to do with my dh's very toxic mother. It took almost 5 years for her to come around but she did. I still do not fully trust her and will probably always have my guard up. '
Protect your children from these people so they don't have to go through what your husband did. I am really sorry you have to go through this while you are so sick.
Karen
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 5:21:18 AM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1451
Joined: 3/13/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
If I were you, considering your medical condition, I would not put myself in that place again. I would refuse to see her and refuse to allow my children to see her. If you husband wants to go that is his choice. If he gets upset I would firmly state that this is what you need right now and you are willing to revisit the matter in several months when you are better. When and if it is revisited, I would not resume contact unless firm boundaries are in place. One which would definately be that if she spoke to you again like that, you would immediately leave. Immdediately.
To be honest, I would probably just cut contact altogether. That is what we had to be willing to do with my dh's very toxic mother. It took almost 5 years for her to come around but she did. I still do not fully trust her and will probably always have my guard up. '
Protect your children from these people so they don't have to go through what your husband did. I am really sorry you have to go through this while you are so sick.
Karen
Surpassing peace I am the same in that I dont trust my MIL. I am blessed that we dont have to ever see her in person (Thank you Lord), If a person repeatedly tries to tell your husband behind your back that you aren't good enough, that second marriages dont work anyway so why waste your time, and that he neeeds to leave you for no reason, how can you ever trust them not to do that again? If she had repented, and admitted to it and appologised then may be I could begin to trust again,but she hasnt done any of these things so we keep well away.I told her that if she appologises then I will resume writing to her etc, but she never has, so she just gets a Christmas card and a birthday card.
It is sad as she has cut her own throat. If she hadnt done this we may have gone all that way to see her again but as it is we never will now. I cant trust her to be on her own with my husband again. She is poisonous. God clearly told us to stay away anyway, and He knows best.
My husband never actually wanted to go and see her the last time and now I know why.lol. We were like lambs to the slaughter.I have actually asked my husband to promise that if he ever goes over there again(maybe if she got really ill or whatever), not to be alone with her at any time. She wont say anything if another person is there. He has said however not to worry as there is no way he will be going again. He has learnt his lesson.
Just becuase a person is in the family,doesnt mean that they should be allowed to cause such unhappiness.
Agenias. Please try getting that book that I recommended. It does explain what manipulation and control are and how to deal with it, using godly boundaries. Two more really helpful books are
'In Sheeps clothing' understanding and dealing with manipulative people by George Simon and
'Toxic In Laws' Loving strategies for protecting your marriage by Susan Forward. Both very good.
You can tell I have read widely on this. lol.
It may also be very helpful for you and your husband to go and see a wise and godly couple from your church who can help and support you both in this.Sometimes outside help and support is needed.
God Bless
< Message edited by herestoresmysoul -- 10/30/2009 5:42:28 AM >
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 11:04:35 AM
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deermousie
Posts: 2218
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Agenias
My MIL blew up at my husband on the phone 2 weeks ago when she learned he had a vasectomy.
This is personal information between you, your husband and the doctor. She has no say. She should have never been told, and she doesn't know her place in minding other people's business. Since your husband knows his mother and her likely reaction (You say something, she explodes in anger. Repeat), why did he tell her. Was he feeling guilty for withholding information she demands to know and control?
Please point out to your husband that his mother is not part of his marriage. Her boundries are way out of whack, and I wonder if his are, too. Is there a godly older man at church who can disciple your husband? He may feel like a beaten dog (as I was until my mother tried to hurt my daughter, and I had to stand up to that, no matter what the consequences). His life could improve and be easier for him.
quote:
There is a 50% chance that the child will get it from the mother, and we would rather adopt another child
This is excellent reasoning, and I can't imagine any sane person thinking you are obligated to birth another child (not that it's anyone's business but yours). Stop telling your MIL anything, especially personal stuff. It's none of her business, and she's trying to take over your lives. Stop her by closing your mouths.
quote:
We have 3 children and I got worse with each pregnancy, and didn't know I had Lyme
You don't have to convince us; you're an adult and it's between you, your husband and your doctor. Quit telling MIL anything. Refuse to answer questions by changing the subject and asking how her bunions are (or something about herself).
quote:
After my MIL blew up she told my husband that I do not have Lyme disease but am 'faking' it so we don't come to their house! He told her she was wrong, ect.
She's dragging you both into arguments - is she bored? Stop telling her things. She sounds like she loves the drama of strife.
quote:
We tried to talk to her a few days later, bringing over a positive blood test, ect and she stated that a positive test would not change her mind...
Quit giving her information - she doesn't believe it, and she's got another way to trick you into giving her more confidential information. Cut off the flow.
quote:
It was very bizzare, and I tried to remain calm and resolve things as my husband wanted them to be resolved.
Refuse to be drawn in; this woman can't allow anything to be resolved if she's living off the drama. If your husband won't stop it, you can for at least yourself. When this nonsense starts, say, "I need to leave now. Goodbye" and walk out the door. Walk home if you have to, or call a taxi. If the kids are with you, get them out of that house (I wouldn't have them there in the first place. They don't need to know her - she's a bad influence).
quote:
I asked MIL what I can do to be a better DIL to her ect. She denied ever having said that I was 'faking' an illness. Well, I learned later that she had said that same to someone right after I was diagnosed, a year ago...I cannot imagine how many times she has said it to others.
You're billing her for your speculation. Stop doing that. There's plenty she is doing you can bill her for.
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I cannot understand this woman
If you expect her to be moral, nothing she does will make sense. Get away.
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I was confused and hurt and she said many other things that I don't care to repeat, but were bizzare, lied about several things she has said and such.
Then she's a liar as well as nuts. Stop listening to her. She's immoral. See Eph. 4:29 and how she's violating what God says to do. The Ninth Commandment, too, about bearing false witness. That means lying.
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This has been affecting my health
You are an adult. Your family needs you. You can't be fodder for your MIL and a wife and mother. Choose her or them. God says to leave parents and stick to mates, take care of kids. If something is hurting your ability to be a good mother and wife, YOU have the responsibility to avoid that thing. You're a mother - be an adult and take care of yourself.
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I don't want her to be more angry...
She is probably always going to be angry, no matter what you do. So do what is right and sane anyway and stop listening to her.
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I don't trust her around my kids now, she said some rude remark to our eight year old which he later told me about.
Are you surprised? It's what she does - free insanity for the whole family! In your shoes, I guarantee you my kids would NEVER be around this crazy, destructive grandparent. She hurt them already. Will you allow it to happen again? If you do not protect your children from a harmful situation then you are a negligent parent. Be the adult and protect those kids.
quote:
Do we just ignore them until I am feeling better which will take at least 3-6 more months??
How about you distance yourself from them until the youngest kid is at least 18? Send cards, get off the phone at the first insult, and get on with your life. Your kids need to know you'll protect them from her. Your children and this woman should never be within 100 feet of each other.
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I just don't have the energy right now to deal with such negativity!
Do you see things in a different light now? Back off from her.
There are aligators in Florida, and you could exhaust yourself fighting them off to keep them away from your kids. Why not just build a fence? Or move to Montana?
quote:
his parents were saying things like, "Well, it doesn't matter if SHE doesn't want us to have the kids, they are your kids too, so you can do what YOU want" to my husband, trying to split us up.
Do you need more convincing she is evil? What God has put together let no man (or mother in law) separate. She's going counter to God. Distance yourself from her.
quote:
I am so afraid that if I do or say the wrong thing
With her, everything is the wrong thing. It gives her an excuse to stir up strife. Put distance between you. Protect yourself for your childrens' sake.
quote:
My husband says that he loves me and would never leave me regardless of what they say, but I am so afraid. He did not really defend me even when his mom told me that I have 'warped' her son's mind, claimed I said things I never said...like that they were bad parents...the thought has never crossed my mind!
Put distance between you and her. Stop listening to her. Your husband needs to stop listening to her but you can't make him. So you tell him and let him decide what he will do. You protect yourself for your childrens' sake.
quote:
I understand he is a very quiet person though.
He spent the most formative years of his life under her constant nuttiness. He may not have been trained on how to be a husband or a friend or a sane person or a man or a Christian. An older man discipling him would be wonderful. That doesn't mean he's bad (I bet he's a good person, just doesn't know what to do). Pray for him. Get him the book on Boundries (read it together?) and start building a new life. The old one isn't God's way of health and building up.
May I bluntly suggest you aren't living like a free Christian but like a slave to a bad person? Christians have God's boundries: don't lie, don't tear down families, don't destroy, do build up children in the reverential awe and teaching of God (not bad grandparents). Don't murder, either physically or emotionally and don't let someone murder you, either. You and your husband are allowing yourselves to live under the control of an angry person who is trying to get you to submit to her illegitimate authority . She has no authority. She's wrong. You real have authority God gave you: be parents, your husband be the protector of his household, answer to God and live in His truth. You can fix this today - start with deciding to do what God says and put distance between you and her, one step at a time . Protect yourself and your children. That Boundries book is an excellent start.
She's not married to you. She's not married to your husband. Kick her out of your marriage. Kick her out of your marriage bed. Kick her out of your doctor's office.
If she opens her mouth to make an insult or cause strife, put distance between you. Protect yourself for your childrens' sake.
Your husband is going to have to choose whether he wants to be married to you or his mother. You have to choose what is healthy no matter what he does, because your kids need at least one parent who is an adult and will protect them.
Please go talk to your pastor and get some help before your children are crippled by their grandmother. She's already gotten a start. Go to www.biblegateway.com and look up the word strife.
God bless you and make your family a wonderful testament to God's love and grace. There are people on this list whom God has healed , and you can be on that list, too. Trust God, learn His boundries, and avoid what you know is wrong. Step into God's light and love and sanity. You'll find a welcome there! [:)
_____________________________
"Through Gates of Splendor" by Elizabeth Elliot
"Federal Husband" by Doug Wilson
www.biblegateway.com for online concordance (I use it daily)
"Passion and Purity" by Elizabeth Elliot
And I think chickens are really funny
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 12:27:38 PM
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KaptZ
Posts: 155
Joined: 10/28/2009
From: The swamps of Jersey
Status: offline
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Time to have a sit down with the hubby. If he is not willing to stand by his wife against ALL comers then you have bigger problems than the MIL.
Good luck!
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 1:12:47 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3281
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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You can choose to not see your MIL for 1 day, 6 months, 6 years or forever. That is your choice.
Your husband has the right to make his own choice as to whether or not he sees his mother. You don't have to go with him. Your husband does have the right to allow your children to see their grandmother. He is their father. You do not have to go with them.
You can set boundaries for yourself. You cannot set boundaries for other people. You can set the boundary that you will not see or communicate with your MIL for however long you need. You can also set a boundary that you won't listen to what she says to other people even if it is to your husband.
I would recommend that you isolate yourself from her for at least the duration of your medical treatment for Lyme Disease. Isolate meaning don't see her, don't speak to her and don't let others tell you what she is saying unless it is along the lines of "Get well soon." Any issues or contact that must be made with her should be done by your husband.
Forgive your husband for his lack of reaction. Yes, it would have been assuring for you if he had reacted in a protective way against his mother's bad behavior. But, give him the benefit of the doubt. He grew up in her home. His lack of reaction may be a result of him discovering that not reacting, not confronting is a safer choice. It may be much easier for him to just be the buffer between you and her as you choose to not be in contact with her until you are physically stronger rather than being forced to intervene in face-to-face confrontations.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 1:15:46 PM
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Agenias
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
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Thank you all for your comments and suggestions!! You have given me a lot to think about! I agree that I am responsible for my children's health, both emotionally, spiritually and physically and I want to stand up for that. It scared me when FIL told my husband that I am not the only parent and hubby can do what he wants! It was just shocking to hear that from an almost 60 year old man.
He also told us that when the grandkids come over, they are bound to their rules, not ours. This all came about because although FIL knew we didn't want him smoking around the kids, when we would go over, he would light up. I tried not to say anything because my husband kept saying they would be mad...my husband just said he kept 'forgetting' that he wasn't supposed to smoke.
Once when our oldest son went to their house, I said, "If grandpa forgets and smokes, can you remind grandma." I didn't know what else to do, and I said it very nicely, wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes.
MIL called my husband saying how his wife was SO disrespectful and that I said FIL was 'bad' and that it's HIS house and if he wants to smoke, he will DO IT!
This prompted a letter written by me to them...which only made them more upset. They said I was 'undermining' FIL's authority as a grandparent and it was incredibly disrepectful and they couldn't beleive I was say such a thing!
I had NO CLUE they would freak out like they did...I didn't mean ANYTHING by it and since I was silenced to speaking to them about it, I just figured my son (who didn't think anything about it either) could be a reminder. Apparently though it sounds like he wasn't 'forgetting', but doing as he please since it is 'his house'.
My husband actually told me last week he would write a letter because he wants to start being a man and standing up. I think you all are right in that he feels like a child still because of how he has grown up. He let me read what he wrote last night and I must say, I was very surprised. I expected him to say, "please just get along with my wife, I love all of you." But he didn't...he really stood up for me in the letter.
He and I have been getting closer to God (it is easier for me now that my nervous system is starting to get rebalanced with treatment...years of panic attacks are GONE with the more bacteria I kill...had no idea that was just another symptom of the lyme). He is becoming a different person and it's so awesome..praise God!!!
His mom isn't 'old', she just turned 60 and there are no known health problems.
It's funny because I have realized like you were saying that I am not going to try to change her mind...when we gave her the blood test, we had NO idea she wouldn't accept even a positive test! Hubby really thought it would all be done. Then she started bringing all this other stuff up.
She said to hubby, "why do you hold her way up here on this pedastal? She's no better than anyone else!" To which he replied after the inital shock, "becaus she's my wife and I love her!". The conversation just grew stranger and stranger until she said that she was keeping the letter I had written about the smoking to, "someday rub it in your kids' faces".
I think our kids will probably agree that smoking is bad, so I don't quite understand it, but was quite shocking to hear my own mother in law say she wanted to black mail me. There are things I don't care to repeat and there are things that have happened with her with other family members on her husband's side where she has accused them of things that were later proven wrong, and she refuses to admit she was wrong and apologize.
Above all, she needs prayer...she had a less than ideal childhood herself (although she says it was great...but she was raised by her grandparents because her mother was too young to raise her and her sister) and I don't know how much that has affected her life. It is sad that at 60, she is still stuck in her world.
I will re-read all of your responses again and we will pray about what to do next, I appreciate your input though because I was feeling torn. I will delete this post this evening, and I truly thank you ALL!
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 1:26:31 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3281
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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It is your FIL's house. He does have the right to smoke in his house regardless of who is there. You and your husband have the right to not visit and not take your children to visit if FIL is going to be smoking. You also have the right to leave. Don't have and don't let your children remind their grandparents about what they should or shouldn't do in their home. It is disrespectful.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 1:29:45 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 804
Joined: 11/21/2007
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I disagree that you have no say if your husband wants to take your children. If my husband insisted on taking our children to a place that was mentally, emotionally, or physically dangerous, I weould fight him tooth and nail. Thankfully, he never would. Grandpa does not have any authority that you can undermine. You are the parents. Your will supercedes.
Other than that, amen and ditto to Deermousie.
Karen
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 1:31:04 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 804
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To be clear, grandpa can smoke up his house like a firepit. You just don't have to let your kids be there.
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 1:57:13 PM
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Agenias
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2005
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Thank you surpassing peace and Laura,
I don't think my husband will try to take the kids there if he doesn't feel it to be safe for them. I believe we are on the same page, as he always hated the smoke as well.
Laura, I wholeheartedly agree that he can do as he pleases in his own home...but he was basically saying that we have to bring our kids to their house whether he smokes or not. I meant no disrespect, was only thinking of my child's health...he's always been our more sickly one...never knew he had Lyme until this past spring...he's doing so much better!! If I were to feed my sister's children candy and knew she didn't want me to and kept doing it...then my sister told her child one day to remind me that I am not supposed to feed them candy, I don't think I should take offense to that..it is wrong to constantly undermine what the parents feel, and smoking is not good, esp for kids because their lungs are smaller, ect. In California it is illegal now to smoke with a child in a vehicle, as it's recognized as a carcinogen. Our son was never able to run around like other kids, complained of a lot of chest pain, ect...so adding smoke to the mix, just didn't seem like a good thing and since my husband wasn't able to stick up, and the inlaws don't listen to me...well, then I am backed into a corner.
I feel much better today, my fever is gone and I have some energy...it feel so good to be alive on days like today!!!
Thank you all
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 2:01:29 PM
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herestoresmysoul
Posts: 1451
Joined: 3/13/2009
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Agenias
Thats sounds really good and positive that your husband has been thinking about it and is writing a letter. I definately think that is the best way if he cannot do it in person.
I agree with a couple of others here in that if people have been bought up with such a person they may not have learnt how to deal with them. My husband was never taught this, as his dad used to just go off into his workshop and never stood up to her so he never learnt. He may well have realised that the only way to keep her 'happy' was to do what she said and wanted. This, of course, just enables that person to always get their own way and this makes them even worse.
My husband does struggle with dealing with his mum and on the rare occasions that he has done, she has verbally attacked him and told him that HE needs prayer. She absolutely cannot deal with ANYONE questioning her or challenging her in ANY WAY, so my husbands solution (which I agree with)is to keep right away. If anyone tries to destroy a marriage then they do not deserve to see their family.
Please warn your husband that she will no doubt go MAD when she reads the letter and will put up a BIG fight about it, so you will both need to be strong and stay togather and stick to what you have agreed. DONT GIVE IN as this will only make things even worse. if you are both persistant, then she will either eventually agree to be reasonable and stop interfering or she will loose her family.Its her choice but stay strong.
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 2:43:48 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3281
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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quote:
Laura, I wholeheartedly agree that he can do as he pleases in his own home...but he was basically saying that we have to bring our kids to their house whether he smokes or not. I meant no disrespect, was only thinking of my child's health...he's always been our more sickly one...never knew he had Lyme until this past spring...he's doing so much better!! If I were to feed my sister's children candy and knew she didn't want me to and kept doing it...then my sister told her child one day to remind me that I am not supposed to feed them candy, I don't think I should take offense to that..it is wrong to constantly undermine what the parents feel, and smoking is not good, esp for kids because their lungs are smaller, ect. In California it is illegal now to smoke with a child in a vehicle, as it's recognized as a carcinogen. Our son was never able to run around like other kids, complained of a lot of chest pain, ect...so adding smoke to the mix, just didn't seem like a good thing and since my husband wasn't able to stick up, and the inlaws don't listen to me...well, then I am backed into a corner.
I know you didn't mean any disrespect. It just is disrespectful. Asking them not to smoke when the kids are there is fine. Reminding them once is fine. After that it is disrespectful. Asking your son to remind an adult who is reasonable and understanding but sometimes forgetful is fine. Asking your son to remind a difficult, unstable, overbearing, unreasonable adult isn't a wise choice. I'm not faulting you. It's easy to forget and expect reasonable behavior from an unreasonable person. Just take it as a learning experience. We have unreasonable people in our family. I have the scars from expecting a reasonable response to a reasonable comment or suggestion. And, finally, No, you don't have to take your kids to their house whether he smokes or not.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 3:21:35 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 804
Joined: 11/21/2007
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Don't expect her to take a letter well. My husband wrote his mother this beautiful, painful, and heartwrenching letter. He touched on how he would always love her as his mother but she needed to understand that he had chosen a wife and biblically he had to and wanted to put his wife as the number one women in his wife. He worked on it on for so long and tried to put everything the best way possible with a loving heart. She. Was. Furious. After she called leaving screeching messages, "Honor your mother and father. Above all else!" Then she called to tell him that she was glad he wrote the letter because any time she forgot what an ungrateful, horrible child he was, she would just pull the letter out of her purse and that would sustain her anger.
My husband is a wonderful, loving, godly man. He stood between his mother and his wife and refused to allow her to treat me horribly. He refused to allow her to cause strife in our marriage. For that she hated him. And I do not use that word lightly, she hated him. The stories I could tell. They are just insane. You would probably think I was exaggerating if I told you some of the things. In the end, my husband stood beside me and our children.
I am glad you are feeling better. Your husband can learn to deal with this. It will be hard and he will have to overcome so much. My husband actually had couseling/mentoring sessions with our pastor mainly to deal with this. May God bless you.
Karen
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 5:33:25 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1406
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
quote:
ORIGINAL: deermousie
(((Agenias)))
This is my non-medical non-professional opinion, Agenias: your MIL is nuts. Toxic. Destructive.
Go take care of the family God has given you primary responsibility for, and close the door on what you can't fix. God bless you and heal you, dear.
Agreed. Stay the heck away from destructive, toxic people.
I have seen and heard this so much recently and I'm just wondering where it is found in the Bible that Christians should completely cut off difficult and disagreeable people from our lives? It seems to be a knee jerk reaction from so many and, to me, it is a result of the psychology that has seeped into the church of late.
God is in the business of restoring relationships and changing people, yet how can He do that work if we cast these people off without giving Him every opportunity to make those changes? He often wants to use us and our love for these people to change them...are we missing that by removing them from our lives?
In light of the following Scriptures, how is this justified?
4 "Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails." I Cor. 13
To the OP, please pray long and hard before you take steps to eliminate your husband's parents from your life. I also would just like to say that letters are never appropriate means of communication in cases like this. You all need to sit down together, face-to-face and at least try to come to an understanding of one another.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 5:39:52 PM
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Agenias
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
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Herestoresmysoul,
I hear you about people always putting up with the difficult person only to have them gain even more 'control' and become worse. My FIL is different, because he actually sides with her, said his wife had nothing to apologize for in his opinion, said everything was his fault, and MIL got 'stuck' in the middle of it! I couldn't believe he was taking the blame for everything! It was very 'different' I would say. I know if I dug myself into a hole being mean, my husband wouldn't stick up for me and say everything was his fault.
I did tell him what you all said on this forum that she will get angry...I think she will too! I can only imagine what she will say. We have to see them tomorrow for our niece's birthday party and hubby plans to give them the letter when we leave because we want our niece to have a nice party.
I am sorry that you have dealt with this as well, it is very very stressful to say the least!
Laura,
I understand now what you are saying. I guess at the time, I really didn't think anything would come of it...my comment was just a casual thing I said not even thinking they would say I was disrespectful...hubby probably heard me say it and didn't think anything of it either.
I had told MIL last week that I loved her as she was hubby's mom and God created her and she said, "then PROVE IT!" What do you do with that? She isn't sure whether she will forgive me or not she said...not sure exactly what I apologized for, but I did tell her I was sorry if she was offended...also apologized for the smoking comment to my son, though I didn't mean anything by it at all!! Just thinking it would remind him not to do it.
I didn't realize until then just how unreasonable they were as we had moved out of state to CA and it had been awhile before seeing them. I know now though and will not expect reasonable statements from them any longer.
Surpassing Peace,
Wow! I'm really really sorry!! I don't even have words! That is too bad!! I'm sure your husband has noticed things/ways she behaved growing up that weren't quite right...it sounds like she may have something wrong as well, I also feel like I have changed alot going into my 30's and it's strange that at 60, a person still isn't acting maturely. I am not in their shoes and I can't pretend to understand.
Counseling would be a very good step...we will look into this as well as the books mentioned...I think it will help my husband a lot as well.
Harvie,
Funny you mention the word toxic...it's how I felt being around her. I actually said the word toxic to my husband...she's just 'toxic'.
Thanks all!
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 5:52:30 PM
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Agenias
Posts: 8
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline
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Hi Kat,
We will pray about this for sure...we didn't plan to cut them out forever, just until Christmas time, give my body time to get to an even higher level of health because I have learned in the past that the spirochete bacteria which causes Lyme thrives on stress and imbalance in the body. If I weren't sick, this wouldn't be such an issue.
The fact that MIL has lied so many times about things is really scary and sad. I also believe that Jesus changes people and that's why I came here because I wanted to have input. Right now my husband said it is best to just not see them for 7 weeks about, which would give me 14 more treatments and time to deal with everything happening in my body.
I can't have my adrenals get really bad again and my nervous system haywire...the panic was so bad, I often couldn't take a shower by myself without feeling like I was dying. I didn't realize at the time that I wasn't having 'normal' panic attacks because when they last for hours or days, it's not a psychological problem, but physical. The body isn't supposed to go into fight or flight mode for that long, but mine was doing it and I read many many books. When I got vertigo so bad and couldn't walk, I just told myself it was anxiety, when I would get muscle twitching all over my body, I would just say it was anxiety. I pretty much excused away all of my symtpoms because I didn't know I had Lyme and it feels SO SO GOOD to feel 'almost normal', or pretty close some days...after 13 years, I'd forgotten what it is like to just sit outside and watch the leaves fall and feel so good. And I'm not even half way through treatment, so the farther I get I can only imagine how it will be 
We want to be shining lights for them, but right now I just feel like I need to get myself well.
We did try to talk with them. My husband just said he can't think about what to say when he is in a confrontational situation. I know his mom and sister kept telling him to 'spit it out..if you have something to say.. SAY IT!' Which only made it worse.
He told me about writing a letter, and I told him to be careful because she may keep it and use it against him like she plans to use my letter against me. I'm trying to let him 'handle it' as he told me he just wants me to get well. I'm trying to let him do this on his own right now.
I really do understand what you are saying Kat, I do...and I plan to be a light for them when I am better...it's just so strange because we can't talk to them as MIL places all blame on me. She blamed me for his diabetes lab test said I needed to help him more. She blamed me for his not having an opinion, said it's all my fault, she blames me for everything and I do think it's because she has a personality disorder...not multiple personality, it's totally different.
Anyhow...thank you for writing...hopefully sometime next year I can come back and report that they have changed and things are so much better
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 6:15:09 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1406
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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I do understand that you are sick and have to protect your health, Agenias. That is a priority for sure.
I think I was more addressing the quick reaction of some to say people are just nuts, toxic, etc and that we should just cast them off.
I pray God's healing for you and do hope He will work to change your in-laws and make you all the family he desires you to be. He surely is able.
Blessings!
14 "For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height-- 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us" Eph. 3
Edited to make sense!
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 10/30/2009 6:22:16 PM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 6:24:59 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2218
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
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You are getting excellent advice from all directions, Agenias. It might be good to show this thread to your husband. We are all cheering for him! Good for him for writing that letter!
quote:
They said I was 'undermining' FIL's authority as a grandparent
Others have already pointed out this is nonsense and FIL has it exactly backwards - I add my dismay that he is so wrong. We leave parents, cleave to mates, and God holds the parents responsible. The NIV mentions grandfather only three times, and none of those references convey any authority. The Bible tells us what we are commanded to do for our children, not grandchildren. Your in-laws have no biblical leg to stand on.
My FIL was taught nothing by his father (who was a big shot in Boy Scouts - go figure) and so his style was "hands off" in my husband's childhood. Thus my husband grew up knowing nothing but letting mom run things. It has been a struggle for him, and it's an area where a man can feel so unsure. I highly recommend the book, "Federal Husband" - it helped my dear husband a lot. And of course we wives stand behind our husbands and cheer them on!
quote:
I had NO CLUE they would freak out like they did...
Get used to it - it seems to be the way they respond. They are losing control of you and they are probably in a panic. Greater temper tantrums might bring you back under control. I think they're about to find out it no longer works.
quote:
I just figured my son (who didn't think anything about it either) could be a reminder.
Yeah, this isn't a child's fight. Protect him and keep him behind you.
quote:
My husband actually told me last week he would write a letter because he wants to start being a man and standing up. I think you all are right in that he feels like a child still because of how he has grown up. He let me read what he wrote last night and I must say, I was very surprised. I expected him to say, "please just get along with my wife, I love all of you." But he didn't...he really stood up for me in the letter.
I am so proud of your husband! All of his training has been "if you stick up you'll get mowed down by a tornado" and he's going against all of that. It's terribly costly for him to do this and he's doing it anyway! Yay!
quote:
He is becoming a different person and it's so awesome..praise God!!!
God builds men. Ain't it great?!?  Rock on, Agenias' Husband!
quote:
She said to hubby, "why do you hold her way up here on this pedastal? She's no better than anyone else!" To which he replied after the inital shock, "because she's my wife and I love her!"
Whoo-woo!!!!! Well said!
quote:
The conversation just grew stranger and stranger until she said that she was keeping the letter I had written about the smoking to, "someday rub it in your kids' faces".
<Gasp>
She wants to hurt your kids as well as you. If she hadn't done it already, she just tore up her Grandmother Card. What a family wrecker.
quote:
Above all, she needs prayer...she had a less than ideal childhood herself (although she says it was great...but she was raised by her grandparents because her mother was too young to raise her and her sister) and I don't know how much that has affected her life. It is sad that at 60, she is still stuck in her world.
Sin is often generational... you can trace it from parents to children to grandchildren and often to great grandchildren. It takes God's mercy and grace for someone up to say, "This ends with me. No more nonsense. I'm going to do it God's way." Yes, pray for MIL, but pray more for knowledge of how God made families to work and the wisdom and grace to do it. This is a big mountain to climb, and you're already going up it. You are succeeding!
I call these Pivot Parents. It's people from sick and maybe godless families who determine to change how they will live and how their children will be raised. Their lives pivot from sick to healthy, as best they can. You obviously are Pivot Parents - God bless you!
I am a Pivot Parent. There are lots of Pivot Parents on this forum (by God's grace!). We should start a club or something!
My mother told me I had to pretend that I wasn't being screamed at with insults and threats until all hours of the morning and watch my father beat everyone, but I was "happy and loved." I was told I'd be disowned if I even dared believe anything different. And I didn't... not for decades. I was one of the "Children of Silence." But when my mother put my child's health and life at risk, I found my voice. I told her we'd had generations of child abuse (ooh - the family skeleton out of the closet!); she had to help end it before it destroyed my daughter and her only grandchild. She disowned me on the spot, and kept her so-called "righteous anger" (after all, I'd disobeyed her about what I was supposed to believe, and deserved to be kicked out of the family) until the day she died.
I heard from other family members how my mom had been telling them what an awful person I was for disowning her mother.
Sick, sick, sick.
And your in-laws will have a major fit. Too bad - you have to do what God calls you to do, and they are noise in the background calling you to their sin. Turn away from them, walk away.
God tells us to be holy like He is holy, and evil people can't stand holy people. Even if they try to make it look like it's your fault, they are the ones who refuse to come to health and love. You're headed to God, they are headed away from His commands. Don't let their refusal to go along be made to look like your fault. God says, "Come," and we must move towards Him. They probably will continue to insist on this perversion of what family is, and will squawk because you aren't going along with it.
Let the chips fall where they may - God is in front of you, calling you to be more like Him (Rom. 8:29) and keep your eyes on Him (Heb. 12:2). If they refuse to move towards God, that's for Him to deal with, not you. It's a spiritual battle, and you're on the winning team.
May He have mercy on your in-laws and turn them around; it happens sometime. God bless you and your good husband and children. May He bring health and grace to you. I am praying for you today.
< Message edited by deermousie -- 10/30/2009 6:33:05 PM >
_____________________________
"Through Gates of Splendor" by Elizabeth Elliot
"Federal Husband" by Doug Wilson
www.biblegateway.com for online concordance (I use it daily)
"Passion and Purity" by Elizabeth Elliot
And I think chickens are really funny
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RE: Please Help with In Laws! - 10/30/2009 6:53:53 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2218
Joined: 9/26/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
I have seen and heard this so much recently and I'm just wondering where it is found in the Bible that Christians should completely cut off difficult and disagreeable people from our lives?
If these people were only difficult and disagreeable, I think Agenias would be thrilled. They are turning God's authority upside down (against God's Word), they are trying to break up the marriage (against God's Word), they are hurting Agenias' health (against God's Word), they are teaching destructive theology to their grandchildren (against God's Word).
quote:
It seems to be a knee jerk reaction from so many and, to me, it is a result of the psychology that has seeped into the church of late.
I'm sure this has crept in to a lot of it; many churches are no longer even teaching the Bible.
quote:
God is in the business of restoring relationships and changing people, yet how can He do that work if we cast these people off without giving Him every opportunity to make those changes?
He doesn't have to have our help. He doesn't need a second chance to get it right. He is the sovereign God of the universe. We speak the truth to a person once, and then they know and it's between them and God. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, and we aren't the Holy Spirit.
quote:
He often wants to use us and our love for these people to change them...are we missing that by removing them from our lives?
Sin twists people and consumes them. If they are dangerous, we are to protect ourselves. "Thou shalt not murder" also means we aren't to let others murder us. If someone is destroying our health or marriage, we are to protect ourselves. Sometimes that means "get away."
quote:
In light of the following Scriptures, how is this justified?
4 "Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails." I Cor. 13
That's what God looks like. It is not what Agenias' in-laws look like. If everyone had it together, the Ten Commandments would never have been needed.
quote:
To the OP, please pray long and hard before you take steps to eliminate your husband's parents from your life.
It's been years going on. They've made inroads on Agenias' health to the point she is on the verge of being unable to be a wife and mother. It's the last minute - they need to move away to protect their own family in order to still have a family.
quote:
I also would just like to say that letters are never appropriate means of communication in cases like this. You all need to sit down together, face-to-face and at least try to come to an understanding of one another.
With rational people, your suggestion is a good one.
Scriptural support for removing people from your lives who are having an evil influence:
“Put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Cor. 5:13
Jesus told us to pray: "deliver us from the evil one." The evil one has followers who do his work, and cons people into doing his work. We are to ask for deliverance from them. Deliverance takes us apart from that. Matt. 6:13
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light John 3:20 Christians move in opposite directions from evil - they become separated.
all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28,29 God separates people into groups.
I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. John 17:15 Jesus prays God to separate His people from the evil one. There are people those who influence is from evil. The greater to the lesser.
Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. Rom. 12:9
Hope this helps.
< Message edited by deermousie -- 10/30/2009 7:10:35 PM >
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"Through Gates of Splendor" by Elizabeth Elliot
"Federal Husband" by Doug Wilson
www.biblegateway.com for online concordance (I use it daily)
"Passion and Purity" by Elizabeth Elliot
And I think chickens are really funny
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MARRIED TO A MILITARY PILOT ~ PLEASE PRAY FOR OUR TROOPS! 
