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Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/5/2009 8:44:30 AM
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FunBetty
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From: Land o Cheesecake and Pizza
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I've been working at a church as their secretary for 3 weeks, annnnd I have a question.
Our office computer is password protected. It's a smallish church (120 on Sundays), and myself and the pastor are the only two staff members with office hours. Last Friday when I was at another table working on a few publications, the former interim church secretary came in (long time church member). She helped me with some of the folding, and then when I looked up she had gone to my desk and started using my computer. It turned out she was working on printing something for a bulletin board. I didn't say anything.
This morning as I was starting my computer up, I noticed that she had gotten on my computer over the weekend, emailing a couple of files to herself that she was working on (again for the church).
I'm at a loss of what to say or do. On one hand, she's doing work for the church. On the other hand, she's using the computer (that is part of my workspace) without permission. I would be happy to e-mail/print for her whatever she needed, but she has not asked. On one hand, she is no longer on staff, yet on the other hand, she's been a church member for over 20 years. Not to muddle the OP but to give another insight, when I first started working the chairman of the trustees told me to ask her for the key to the church so I could have one. She flat out refused, saying she had had that key for many years before she filled in as Secretary. Later that day, she went out and made a copy of that key. The key didn't work, so trustee chairperson had to get me a key anyway.
From right now, I'm thinking that there's no right way to fix this, so I should probably take a chill pill and let it go, but I needed to at least vent and see if this is out of whack.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/5/2009 9:48:24 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1445
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quote:
My biggest grief is that there was a "lack of common courtesy" here.
Yes, I've been working in Pastoral Care for a long time and I can understand this. It can be frustrating sometimes, but try not to take it personally. In the ministry, we all work as a team to further the kingdom, and in order to get the job done, you will find the "what's mine is his/hers and what's his/hers is mine" mentality often prevails. For your peace of mind, it is best to overlook it with the higher goal in mind.
Blessings!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/5/2009 10:12:41 AM
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jn1010lf
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Hello FunBetty
I am a firm believer in designated authority. Since you are the official secretary all things go through you, as designated by the church leadership. Someone needs to confer with this person and make set forth some guidelines. This lady will just have to live with it.
This person could be of great help to you with a little submission. Her experience could valuable in the administration of the church. But if she takes offense, maybe someone needs to work with her.
As to keys, I've seen a good plan where one person assigns keys that cannot be duplicated. That way, you don't have situations like you're describing.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/5/2009 10:58:40 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jn1010lf
Hello FunBetty
I am a firm believer in designated authority. Since you are the official secretary all things go through you, as designated by the church leadership. Someone needs to confer with this person and make set forth some guidelines. This lady will just have to live with it.
This person could be of great help to you with a little submission. Her experience could valuable in the administration of the church. But if she takes offense, maybe someone needs to work with her.
As to keys, I've seen a good plan where one person assigns keys that cannot be duplicated. That way, you don't have situations like you're describing.
May work in theory, and no offense, but...when pigs fly! 
From experience, things that work in the corporate world, never work in a busy ministry. It's an entirely different animal.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/5/2009 11:54:24 AM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: jn1010lf
Hello FunBetty
I am a firm believer in designated authority. Since you are the official secretary all things go through you, as designated by the church leadership. Someone needs to confer with this person and make set forth some guidelines. This lady will just have to live with it.
This person could be of great help to you with a little submission. Her experience could valuable in the administration of the church. But if she takes offense, maybe someone needs to work with her.
As to keys, I've seen a good plan where one person assigns keys that cannot be duplicated. That way, you don't have situations like you're describing.
May work in theory, and no offense, but...when pigs fly!
From experience, things that work in the corporate world, never work in a busy ministry. It's an entirely different animal.
True, but there might still be good reason to make some precautions.
FB, is there a way to make it so that when your computer is idle for a while, you have to log in to pull up your desktop? No one just walking into your office should be able to use the computer without your permission and without your logging in for them. (To me, that's just common courtesy -- I don't care who you are.)
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/5/2009 1:01:36 PM
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Kat_D
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Again, since you are the new kid on the block, just be sure, before you put any blocks on the computer, that this woman hasn't been authorized to use it at her convenience (in her service to the church) by the pastor.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/5/2009 1:15:44 PM
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bolt.
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This is weird to me. If the Church has a computer, then that seems to me like group property -- like desks, tables, photocopiers and coat hangers. Maybe it's a bit sensitive, like a sound board that shouldn't be messed with by amatures, but I find it odd that it would be meant only for official staff.
Keys too... at our small Church nearly everybody that's been there longer than a couple of years has gotten one for one reason or another. Our mentality is that it's 'our' building -- why should we not come and go as we like? The only purpose of the locks is to keep the general public out when nobody's home in the building.
(Perhaps you misunderstood the trustee... there's only a slight semantic difference between, "Ask Sue to give you a key." and "Ask Sue to give you her key." and you could have misheard, if you come from a background that controls keys more tightly)
Personally, I'd just relate to her as your unpaid co-worker using common property... same as everybody else that contributes to Church life. The best thing to say might be, "Hey, Sue, sometimes I'd like to clear my workspace or save stuff before you hop on the computer -- could you let me know if you intend to use it? Do you need it today?" Then when she does so, say, "Sure! Just a minute." and do what you need to do.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/5/2009 4:07:38 PM
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FunBetty
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Thanks for the replies. Like I said earlier, I don't want to create drama in the church. Mostly just a vent and to see how other people would handle such situations.
As for password protection, I have no intentions on changing the church password unless instructed to do so. I do know that this lady might have problems finding electronic files in the future. When I arrived it was an "electronic mess" with no organization. As I begin to organize files, they are going to be moved in such a way where it won't be where it used to be. If so, she will need my assistance (which I will gladly give).
Bolt - I understand what you are talking about re: amateurs touching sensitive things such as a sound board. My husband and I run sound on Sundays at our own church and we know when certain church members have been in the booth making adjustments. How can a computer not be similar? Files can be downloaded, viruses can be contracted, and all sorts of things can happen when the wrong people get a hold of the computer. I'm not saying this lady would do such a thing, but just presenting that option.
And as for the key, the trustee told me specifically to get "the" key from church member. I'm confident this was not a misunderstanding as he offered to ask her if I thought I would feel too uncomfortable to do so.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/9/2009 8:41:32 AM
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Ellie-Mae
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I would ask the pastor if there are any guidelines for use of common property in the church such as the computer, printer, copier, phones, ect. I would also ask if there are any rules concerning how the keys should be shared.
This would be a good way to clear things up for you at your church without bringing up names or sounding like you don't want to share. It would be good to know what you can expect from people while you are the secretary.
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Believe very little of others opinions of you, and believe less of your opinions of yourself. The only opinion that matters is that of your Creator, and He thinks you're to die for.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/9/2009 12:09:11 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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I know the computer is the churches, but just because it is the churches doesn't mean every member should have access to it. I am sure it has tithe information and other private matters that really doesn't need to be accessable by everyone. I would talk with the pastor and let him decide.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/9/2009 3:51:57 PM
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RJR_fan
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Oh, well.
Once upon a time, when I was between jobs, I asked to use the church's typewriter to type up a sharp resume. (speaking of ancient history!)
The next day, the secretery called back, and said that this "would not be a good use of church resources."
SO -- I asked the poor secretery (who was only passing on the decision of the elders, it turns out) -- what ARE the critical resources of the church? The office equipment? Or the members who, for years, have been tithing to the church, fasting for the church, praying for the church, serving in the church?
I never did get to use the church typewriter, but venting made me at least feel a whole lot better!
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Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/9/2009 11:12:41 PM
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TMeeks
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The critical aspect of problems of this kind is the question of security. You have said that the computer is password protected. But, someone left the office staff and noone bothered to change the password. Or, someone gave her the password, since she came in when you weren't there.
Change the password. And, set it so that the computer goes to sleep in 5 minutes if no one is using it. I am assuming you have letters and other critical data about the members on that computer and there is NO WAY that I would approve casual use... even for the church by anyone not having a "need to know" about that information.
It's particularly critical if you are connected to the internet on that computer. It doesn't take much to put all that personal information at risk by going to the wrong web site.
A church computer, especially one that holds anything of a personal or financial nature about the parishioners should be treated just as one would treat the computer in a physician's office. If your church wants people to have access to a computer at the church one can be picked up VERY cheaply these days. Set one over in a corner and point that one out to anyone that wants to use a computer. But, do NOT share the drives on your main computer. Isolate the extra one.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/9/2009 11:27:07 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
This is weird to me. If the Church has a computer, then that seems to me like group property -- like desks, tables, photocopiers and coat hangers. Maybe it's a bit sensitive, like a sound board that shouldn't be messed with by amatures, but I find it odd that it would be meant only for official staff.
If that church computer has so much as a calendar of counseling appointments, letters between church and parishioners or financial data, it had BETTER be VERY secure with EXTREME limits or the church is risking some potential liability.
A chair or photocopier cannot be hacked. Computers can and have been hacked with devastating consequences. It does not take much to seriously compromise a church's computer.
_____________________________
Discovery with Microscopes Blog
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/10/2009 1:01:51 AM
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california_mom40
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Hi FunBetty,
I've got another take on the situation. My grandparents were pastors & I've been in ministry since I was 13 years old. My husband and I have pastored for over 21 years. We grew up in a large church and have pastored the most difficult little sick churches nurturing them to good health. Sometimes parishioners feel like they own the church. It's more prevalent in smaller congregations. People like to take on ownership of things and forget that it's a ministry. We don't own it, it's His. It's all for His glory.
There's two things going on here, it appears. It has a bit to do with insecurity. Not a lot and not enough to go overboard but just be aware that it happens. Everyone has a little bit of insecurity from time to time. It sounds like the old gal doesn't want to lose her 'spot/position'(won't give up the key, no way!) and the new girl would like to have a spot and rightfully so. The old gal may still need to have a key, it's convenient for others to have keys. Did you let the pastor know that she still has a key? "Just letting you know pastor that I got a key after so and so made a copy." Give him the information, no biggie, leave it at that and if there's no response, he's fine with it. Apparently, whoever hired you didn't make it clear that it was a community work space. If there's any question about it, clear things up with the pastor. Can other volunteers use the church computer besides yourself? Ask! There's no reason why this gal should make you feel threatened that she's imposing on your work space. The old gal probably will continue to help, if you're unsure about it, ask for clarification from your boss. Nonchalantly ask, "Just curious if it's ok for other volunteers use the workspace?" If the boss says sure, you know that it's expected for you to share. If he says no, who was doing it, then you tell him and he/she will take care of it. Our own insecurities make us think silly things sometimes. Sometimes it's legit and other times we need clarification to put our minds at ease so we can blow it off.
Just know that you have this job for a reason. You don't have to be exactly like the old gal, be yourself. The old gal doesn't have to feel threatened by you, she hasn't been replaced, it was time for her to move on to other things and that's great! I hope you really enjoy your new job!!! Don't worry! It'll all work out fine!!! Just a little awkward :) Transition feels that way sometimes when we are unsure or a little insecure. It's totally normal. It happened to me when I was starting out a new job. I'm a little competitive and that's a good driving force. I have a feeling your a little competitive too! You're going to be the best secretary!
< Message edited by california_mom40 -- 10/10/2009 1:08:10 AM >
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/10/2009 1:17:18 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
This is weird to me. If the Church has a computer, then that seems to me like group property -- like desks, tables, photocopiers and coat hangers. Maybe it's a bit sensitive, like a sound board that shouldn't be messed with by amatures, but I find it odd that it would be meant only for official staff.
Not where I work. My area on the computer is a private area, and only the pastor has access to it, yet even he won't get into it. The reason? There is sensitive material on there that is no one's business, unless I deem it necessary for someone else to have that information. When someone wants to the computer, if they are well trusted, I let them have their own password, and my items remain private.
The pastor has an area on the computer. I would not even consider getting into his area. He has a right to be able to trust me that I will not violate that confidence he has that all things are confidential unless he tells me specifically that they are not.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
Keys too... at our small Church nearly everybody that's been there longer than a couple of years has gotten one for one reason or another. Our mentality is that it's 'our' building -- why should we not come and go as we like? The only purpose of the locks is to keep the general public out when nobody's home in the building.
We have allowed some keys to go to various ones, but the church has been around long enough to have seen some leave with a bad spirit, then decide to do harm. I keep the majority of the keys in a locked box in a locked closet which few have access to. There are certain keys that many have, but even these were signed out.
Since we allow other congregations (two at a time) to rent the facility, we have to be very careful. We have had occasion to have rented to congregations/leaders who were completely lacking in ethics as well as to those who took major advantage of the building-owners' trust. This is not only difficult to admit, but it is even harder to deal with.
Because we have had problems with theft, most of the doors in the whole church (about 35) are keyed. I watch those keys in the lock box like the proverbial hawk, and if I don't know where they are, I do the dragnet thang.
We had a theft from one of the rooms this week -- a room that should have been locked. ??? Someone stole speakers and an expensive keyboard in June. Someone stole over $700 in cards and phones from two ladies' purses while they sang on the platform before that. And little things like that go on all the time.
I get irritated when people assume that because they give an offering on Sunday, they have some sort of right to the items i need in order to do my job. Fortunately, that stuff fairly well stopped a few years ago, because I made a big stink about having to use church funds and the time they pay me for to go buy items just to get through a day.
Meeks is right, and so is Betty. Things need to be secure in your office, in order to prevent any breech of privacy as well as other issues.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/10/2009 10:58:38 AM
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bolt.
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Yeah, I think I'm coming from a much smaller Church model than is being discussed here. In our setting, I'd expect any sensitive programs (finances, outlook) to be passworded, rather than the whole machine. But I can see the angle on the sensitive information, and I wasn't thinking that way before.
Really, I'd be surprised if the computer in our Church 'office' was even turned on more than 3 times a week... and that would probably be by 3 different people... none of whom would be paid staff.
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Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/10/2009 1:02:26 PM
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FunBetty
Posts: 4499
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
Oh, well.
Once upon a time, when I was between jobs, I asked to use the church's typewriter to type up a sharp resume. (speaking of ancient history!)
The next day, the secretery called back, and said that this "would not be a good use of church resources."
SO -- I asked the poor secretery (who was only passing on the decision of the elders, it turns out) -- what ARE the critical resources of the church? The office equipment? Or the members who, for years, have been tithing to the church, fasting for the church, praying for the church, serving in the church?
I never did get to use the church typewriter, but venting made me at least feel a whole lot better!
I wanted the chance to respond to this.
And please understand I'm not trying to "attack" anyone, but I believe that church members should be extremely careful in their attitude towards church resources. People tithe to the church in order for the church to be enabled to do ministry, and not for personal benefit. Yes, you had a circumstance where you had a great personal need, and that secretary could have given you direction on how to fulfill that need (ie. going to a library, seeking out help from other church members who have a typewriter for use). Office equipment and other equipment throughout the church is not attained so members can freely use it as they please. It is to be used for ministry as determined by the leaders of the church.
In my case, yes, this former secretary is using the computer and other equipment of the church - however, she is not using it for personal benefit. She is using it for ministry work at that church. That is what brought up the whole situation in the first place. The issue was whether she was authorized to be on this particular computer, and whether there should have been a procedure followed for her to do so (ie. asking to use).
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/10/2009 2:09:01 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 537
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
In my case, yes, this former secretary is using the computer and other equipment of the church - however, she is not using it for personal benefit. She is using it for ministry work at that church.
What does the Pastor or office manager have to say with this issue?
What is church policy?
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/12/2009 8:03:08 PM
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10SNE1?
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Wow, I have to say that I am quite surprised by the number of posters who think it is fine for folks to get on staff computers. 
I'm just the Assistant Kids' Director and I have sensitive information about background checks, custody issues, medical conditions etc. on my computer. In fact, our church policy is that "volunteers" are not permitted to use any church computers unless a staff person is in the room.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/12/2009 10:16:55 PM
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bolt.
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From: Canada
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I think those of you who are from bigger Churches really have no idea how a very small Church operates. If volunteers could not use our computer then I don't know who would be preparing for ministries, producing and printing materials or keeping records at all. The pastor? It's my understanding that he mostly uses his laptop... and he doesn't do most of those things anyways. We do.
In a small Church, nearly everyone is a volunteer, and some of those jobs can use the help of a computer... that's why one of us donated one... that's why we all use it if we need to. (Sensitive data is pasworded, I presume... I've never thought to snoop and find out.)
The fact that your Church has an "Assistant Kids' Director" just puts you way out of the league of most Churches that are in my circle. (I'm sure it's a good thing - I'm not trying to knock the big Church model of ministry... we just don't all work in that context. Some of us put the computer in the corner of the nursery because it doesn't belong in the sanctuary and the basement is a bit depressing and cold... and the bathrooms just aren't condusive... and the utility closet is for brooms... the baptistery?)
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/13/2009 3:33:10 AM
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singpeace
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This is most certainly out-of-whack with what God truly intended. She's set in her ways and prideful. I dealt with someone like that who actually took all the financial record books home with her and refused to bring them back. It was a situation that was extremely uncomfortable. It was a trial of the kind I had not experienced before, so I was up against a pro.
Do a LOT of praying, some fasting, keep loving her, and then boldly speak face-to-face to whomever you should. Your Pastor needs to hear your concerns.
_____________________________
Psalm 123:1 Unto You do I lift up my eyes, O You Who are enthroned in heaven.
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/13/2009 6:03:41 AM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 537
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
This is most certainly out-of-whack with what God truly intended. She's set in her ways and prideful.
How do you know no one has told her that they expect her not to use this personal space.
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Personal Workspace in the Church? - 10/13/2009 10:58:59 AM
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buckifn
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Who is in authority within your church besides the Pastor? Do you have a board of Elder's, Deacons, or something of that nature?
The reason I ask is those in leadership need to have policies such as computer usage (and other church equipment such as tables, chairs, etc) in writing and the members of the church are made fully aware of such policies.
A small congregation is no excuse for a small mentality. Small or large a church needs to conduct it's business approp. and with clear policies. I agree with someone else who said to do otherwise is involving SERIOUS liability risks. Not to mention we are representing Christ in our business approach and that means we need to be ABOVE REPROACH.
I deal with this issue all the time and yes, it makes some people angry who feel special entitlements because they have done this or that or attending for x amount of years. My response is always the same- this isn't about you-it's about proper handling of church business and the church belongs to God not us.
Having someone not official church staff on a computer that contains personal information about member's is not approp.
Does your church have a Volunteer Coordinator? Someone you could email the needed information too for bulletins etc and have him/her dispense it to those volunteering to make copies?
Accountability is an important part of church leadership. The lady you mentioned needs to be made aware of that.
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