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Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 3:45:18 PM
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ImSassy
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My brother is also my Pastor. He married my best friend over 17 years ago. Now they are getting a divorce due to a ferocious anger problem that my brother has. He is all things to the church and a very good Pastor but takes out all his frustration on his family. It has gone from mental abuse, emotional abuse, and has started to become physically abusive. My Parents and I have attended the church where he pastors for about 4 years now, teaching the adult Sunday School Class and over the Ladies Ministry as well a lead singer on the Praise Team. My Sister in Law filed for divorce about 2 weeks ago. She feels that she has taken all that she can take. When she left him, I allowed her and her children (his children also) to stay in my home for 2 -3 nights until she could make other arrangements. I intend on keeping a relationship with her and for the sake of my niece and nephew as they are the only family I have.
I resigned my positions at the church and tried to do it peacefully as I just didn't feel like I could attend there anymore for the loss of not having my sister in law there. It feels like it is a death in our family. I can't act as if it is "church as usual". I know more than the other people and I didn't want to be asked any questions by other members. When I took my brother my letter of resignation, he ranted and raved and brought up all kinds of things from over 25 yrs. ago. That was the first time that I have actually seen his temper to that degree and it was very ABUSIVE. Now my Mom and Dad and my Brother are not speaking to me and haven't in over 2 weeks. I do not want to choose sides as their marital issues are not mine. There were no extra marital affairs involved on either part.
I am broken hearted about ALL OF IT.
Does anyone have advice to help with all of these broken pieces?
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 4:20:14 PM
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Sadey
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I hope you know that you did the right thing by letting your sister in law stay at your house and by planning to keep a relationship with her and the children may very well make the difference in them making it or not.
I'm sorry your parents and brother are acting this way, they are wrong.
The church has certainly failied your brother and his family. I'm sure everyone will tear your sister in law to pieces, but God knows what happened and no one can convince God that your brother wasn't wrong to treat his family the way he did.
I'm so impressed with you and your handling of this. What maturity and spirituality you posses!
God bless you and be patience your folks may come around.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 4:24:08 PM
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the_mom
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I'm sorry such a bad thing has happened to your family. However, it is not in your power to make everything right again. You can only do what you think is right under the circumstances. I agree with your decision to protect the innocent wife and children of an abuser. I also think you are correct in leaving a church that has an unrepentant abuser as its pastor, although I understand that was not your reason for leaving. Domestic violence is a crime, and although I know pastors can never be perfect, I do believe they should refrain from openly criminal activity.
These, of course, are the ethical and intellectual considerations, and they probably don't help the heartbreak of being separated like this from your family. Maybe the passage of time will help in reconciliation, at least for you and your parents. Certainly, your brother should seek professional help so that he might continue a relationship with his kids.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 4:50:01 PM
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chrisovery
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ya know this is sad. the saddest thing is that your brother probably suffers from what i call societified. what this is, where we have been told what a pastor should look like, act like and that many people are going to accept him in this way or that way. then when that is not how it works out it becomes very stressful and if this is not the case then it is often the oppression of many rules through the organization and the true freedom is not there. i could be wrong but that is what it sounds like to me.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 5:22:58 PM
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tn1
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I'm sorry for the struggles that your family is going through. Staying neutral in such situations is very difficult and often impossible. It one errs, let's err on the side of protecting those who are weaker, normally the wife and always the children.
IF your brother is acting this way towards his wife, the church needs to know and he needs to be held accountable and at least temporarly suspended from being pastor of that church, though the church would do well to continue to support him and thus his family financially until things are resolved.
I commend you for sticking to your guns and doing what you believe is right by supporting your sister in law. Given the information you presented, I'd do at least the same.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 6:44:28 PM
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buckifn
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The best advice I can give you is take ALL those broken pieces to Jesus EVERY TIME the thought enters your mind about any of them.
Prayer is the 1 sure thing I know which works regardless of any other factors.
God knows what you are seeing and feeling but He still wants you to give them to Him every day.
Pray for yourself, your brother, his family, the church family, and also pray God will surround your brother with Godly men unafraid to share openly with him at a time when he desparately needs it.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 7:57:43 PM
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ta_mosquito
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Moving from Marriage to Relationships.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 11:22:22 PM
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divorcingmyself
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The thing to avoid as much as possible is to take sides. One of the most hurtful things to a guy going through a divorce is when members of his own family appear to abandon him. This happens quite a lot, often due to misinformation provided by the wife.
Clearly, providing a safe haven is not a bad thing. But be very careful taking sides. All is often not as it seems and it can be easy to blame the man for the breakdown of the marriage (this often is the first assumption made by congregational members when Christian men face divorce). If you have personally witnessed abuse, that is one thing. It is entirely another to assume that reports from either side in a divorce are completely true.
Her initiation of the divorce is a bit strange from a Christian point-of-view. Not exactly clearly scriptural, though not uncommon in today's prevalent church policies. Did she try separation/counseling/etc? So little information in your description to offer some experience-based suggestions.
Anyway, take sides and alienate your brother with care. As a Believer, you are required to show grace and love to both of them.
One reason that your family is not speaking to you about this may be that they are fearful of providing information that may be twisted during the divorce proceedings. If you are in a fault divorce state, testimony from a family member against parties in a divorce (especially from the man's family against the man) are often given extremely more weight than the other way around. Often attorneys suggest (and in some states it is a requirement) direct or indirect communication be limited between the parties in a divorce and limited to communication between the attorneys. This may seem strange but there are good reasons for this.
< Message edited by divorcingmyself -- 9/22/2008 11:31:13 PM >
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/22/2008 11:29:22 PM
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deermousie
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I agree with the others here: it was right to take in the innocent and needy SIL and kids. I hope you do stay close to them, no matter what happens in your family, because they need real friends.
Your brother is not fit to be a pastor. No Christian is perfect, but he is habitually violating biblical standards of both husband and pastor and isn't turning away from it. He has a besetting sin, and it disqualifies him for leadership of God's flock.
I have seen churches that back up sinning members and kick out innocent members; God will deal with them. You do what is right and help the innocent, and know whatever blows you may take, God will use it for good. Sinners are sinning against God, and they won't "get away with it." Either God will bring them to repentance and restored relationships or He will let the erring ones go their own way. It's a spiritual battle, so pray like crazy.
Your SIL should go tell her brother he's in sin (ala Gal. 6:1), and instigate a Matthew 18:15ff action against him (tell a brother privately they're sinning, take 2-3 witnesses, tell it in front of the church. If they don't repent, treat them like unbelievers). Because of his abuse, she should take the elders with her (and a cop). And hope those elders are godly men and not lap dogs.
I'm sorry, ImSassy, this has got to be a real gut-wrencher. If your parents back up your brother, then God will deal with them, too, but you go do what is right. If the family is going to tear itself apart over this (and I hope it doesn't, but your brother and parents may insist on it) then you need to be on God's side, not the bully's.
God bless and heal your family, dear heart. I am praying for you today. (((Hugs)))
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/23/2008 12:09:54 AM
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ImSassy
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Thank you for your prayers! I am amazed that every one has posted pretty much the same thing. My SIL stood up in January and repented before the church and said that she felt that she had bitterness in her heart and that she was tired of being a hypocrite in front of the church, for the sake of "ministry". And she stated that the bitterness was directed toward her husband. They took a 40 day sabatical to seek council and to get their priorities back together and focus on their family. My brother stated to the church that he had had a "mistress" for several years being the church and that he had pampered the church at the expense of his family. When all was said and done tho, he accused my SIL of trying to sabotage his ministry and vowed that he would bring her down before he went down. If God doesn't intervene, many people will be devastated. That is why I had to resign. I know too much of what has gone on behind the scenes and I don't want any part in it. I feel that if I had stayed at this church, it would have been as if I were standing with him in front of the congregation. After he blew up with me when I turned in my resignation, I can't stay there any longer and listen to him preach one thing while I know it is totally different when no one is looking. I do believe he started his "race" in a right spirit, but I honestly believe that the "hardness of ministry" and trials that you go through in ministry, has left him very hard hearted and unfortunately, it has been directed toward his family. It is all so very SAD! Thank you again for your continued prayers.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/23/2008 12:16:13 AM
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jaimestarcross
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I think we need to be careful when too many family relations are involved in
church leadership or positions of authority.
The last church I attended in NC was like this: the dad was senior pastor, the son was associate pastor/music leader and his wife was music leader and secretary/treasure.
The other relatives were teachers and counsel.
When I had a problem I learned it was best to seek someone else's
guidance --- my mother's {who didn't go to that church.}
*Advice: just love them and pray they will work out their problems and
live for the Lord. I pray your parents will do the same.
Gently encourage your SIL and brother to seek counseling and restoration --- don't attempt to counsel either of them... offer prayer and agape.
I hope you find a suitable church to attend.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/23/2008 12:53:13 AM
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Focusing
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quote:
he accused my SIL of trying to sabotage his ministry and vowed that he would bring her down before he went down
Sassy, I am really proud of you ... standing beside your best friend and SIL and her children!! That takes guts and courage. And a whole lot of love ... which is what we have been commanded to do. You are doing the right thing.
Pray for your brother and his church. Encourage your best friend to pray for him as well. Not only does he desperately need the prayer, it will help her heart too (and set a wonderful example for the children).
Father, I thank You for Sassy and the love and courage she has displayed. Thank You for being in her midst. I ask that she and her best friend and children feel Your tender love during this difficult and emotional time. Father, be with her brother, soften his heart, focus his eyes back on You. Remind him of Your great love for him. Father, if it is Your will, restore this family, with an even stronger love bonding them together. We know that Your love is the greatest bonding agent there is. Father, I ask that this church family not be torn apart, but that they lift their pastor and family in prayer. Amen.
And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive. - Matthew 21:22
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/23/2008 8:24:24 AM
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DaveW
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This needs to all be brought before the board or the denomination so they can replace him. I totally agree with deermousie that he is unfit to be a pastor until he gets his family life in order.
He should have stepped down when he confessed to neglecting his family.
I see more and more the wisdom of our congregation. They periodically interview the families of all congregational leaders (annually I think) individually to make sure the home life is OK. If not, they are asked to step down until the problem is resolved.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/23/2008 10:01:51 AM
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deermousie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
I see more and more the wisdom of our congregation. They periodically interview the families of all congregational leaders (annually I think) individually to make sure the home life is OK. If not, they are asked to step down until the problem is resolved.
You and I are blessed in this, Dave. Our church has asked two elders to step down - one was a secret drunk, and they finally excommunicated him after working with him a year, to no avail. After a year of sobriety, we "recommunicated" him, with great joy and tears. I doubt he'll ever be an elder again, but he is a well-beloved brother in good standing in the congregation.
This takes love, wisdom and self-sacrifice on the elders' parts. They check with the congregation also and ask what we're struggling with and how can they help. I don't feel "invaded," I feel shepherded.
ImSassy, you are struggling with this awful situation and I rejoice to see you coming up on the right side of it. I think you see clearly where the lines are being drawn, and you are doing what is right inspite of the personal costs. God bless you, dear sister in the Lord! I wish every Christian had the knowledge of God and personal fortitude to do the right thing like this. Others are watching you and your example may help them, too.
May God restore your brother to Himself and the family to His patterns of righteousness and love. I am praying for all of you today. (((Hugs)))
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Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/23/2008 10:11:56 AM
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kiara_tiara
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Life as a christian is not easy at times. We must understand that through it all, God has a tremendous plan for our lives. You have acted upon the requests that the Lord has placed in your heart. Your family not speaking to you is a decision that they have made and there is nothing you can do about this. Remember that the only one who can change people is God, not you.
Happiness is a choice, and your family has chosen at this moment to remain unhappy. I know that it is hard to go through this, especially since it seems like you have "taken sides" with your sister-in-law. On the other hand, what does the Lord say about this? When it comes to right or wrong, blood has nothing to do with this. You resigned because (even when you are not saying it), you know that your brother should not be a pastor at this time. He is going through a season of growth too.
Please remember that if you hand your battles completely to the Lord, He will fight for you...He will take over that battle and will take care of it. Remain faithful, and fully trust in his promise and word. Remember that you are going through this now, but it is only the introduction to something great in your life. Turn this around, look at the positive, not the negative of it. Continue to be yourself, and continue to trust God. Make the choice to be full of joy even in the midst of this storm. I believe that the Lord is preparing you for promotion. Step out of that cloud, and let Him do His part.
It is my deepest desire to let you know that, although I don't know you, this story has touched me deeply and I stand by your side in prayer.
Go with joy, embrace the life the Lord has allowed you to have. Don't forget about the miracles that he has worked in your life. Better yet, don't forget that He has a great promise for your life. He fights for you today.
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Hugs! Kiara_Tiara
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/23/2008 10:20:49 AM
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raivyne
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I agree with deermousie (she's so insightful all the time! LOL), this man is not currently fit to pastor a church.
In my town we had a pastor resign because his wife up and decided she was going to move out of state and divorce him. I won't go into details of why, but it had to do with her state of mind and not his actions towards her (AFAIK anyway). He was completely devistated and felt that if he couldn't keep his marriage together (through no apparent fault of his own) he had no business leading a church.
My point in sharing that this man stopped pastoring because events that he (seemingly) didn't cause or agree with took place in his life. He put the good of the church first. In this story it seems that the events happening to your brother fall entirely onto his lap and he's refusing to give up his position. He seems to be putting his ego first when it should, in fact, be dead last.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/23/2008 12:11:40 PM
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ImSassy
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Thank you everyone! How encouraging to share your burden on this forum and get such wisdom from different ones.
And Kiara_Tiara, thank you especially. When I read your post, it went right in to my spirit. I do agree that my brother does not need to pastor at this time if only for a season. To me, he is walking on dangerous ground. It isn't a matter of choosing sides with my SIL as naturally I dearly love my brother and have faithfully supported "THEIR" ministry. But I feel it is dangerous to be preaching to everyone else when your own spirit is so defiled. Bitter and Sweet cannot and should not be coming out of same well. I literally cry out during the night for him and all concerned.
Thank each of you. Reading these posts has definitely lightened the load.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/24/2008 3:18:14 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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Sassy, I agree that you have done the right thing and acted justly in this. I am so sorry the rest of your family cannot see it. I agree you did the right thing to step down from ministry. I could not stay and support the hypocrisy your brother is living right now.
Family ties can blind. My brother behaved horribly in his marriage. He lied, cheated, drank, and was just an all around bad husband and father. My mother would not hear a word of criticism. It was obviously, somehow, all his wife's fault. I never could understand how she could be so willfully blind.
This must be such a hard time in your life. God will bring you through this fire. He is good and amazing.
Karen
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/24/2008 11:43:22 PM
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ImSassy
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So what was the outcome in your family? My father called to tell me that I am now cut off, not to ever expect any more help out of them and that I would be the loser. He told me to go and make it right with my brother that I was only allowing his wife and in-laws to "hang" my brother.
I cannot even begin to tell you how that feels to actually hear your father say that. Yes, my heart is crushed and very broken.
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/25/2008 2:04:41 PM
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Sadey
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Sassy dear
I do feel bad for your folks in that they are choosing to be blind to their son's real character. It is a choice on their part to believe him completely and not to hear your side. They have a rough time ahead because he will probably have to leave the ministry eventually.
Pray that God will take the scales from their eyes. Its one thing to be mad at your daughter and disown her, its another to stick to it for the rest of your lives. How is your relationship with your mom?
I feel so bad for you that you are being punished for doing the right thing.
Just remember its not God punishing you.
Take care and I'm so impressed with your story and the way you have reacted to all of this.
God bless you
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/25/2008 6:23:34 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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I am so sorry your father is being so harsh and choosing the wrong path. What happened in my family is a general unspoken agreement to not talk about it. My mother has a lot of guilt over my brother's childhood so I know that contributed to her blindness.
My brother died a few years later completely estranged from his children. My mother still hurts over the whole thing because her relationship with these children/young ladies is so damaged. I know she knows she was wrong and he was wrong but she just cannot bring herself to admit it.
Family stuff can be so hard. So many wonderful people do crazy irrational things. It can break bonds and cause so much hurt.
I was sitting looking at my precious 11 month old dd last night. I could finally understand how parents can go nutty. You know what I mean, mothers who won't let go, parents who excuse in behavior in their child no matter what the circumstances, just things that start out from love but can spiral down to sin and despair . I prayed last night that God will stay my hand in my child's future. in this respect.
What I think my mother missed, and what your parents may have missed, is that ultimately our children really belong to God. He loves them and cares for them so much more than we ever can, even though it is impossible for me imagine someone loves my daughter more than me. I know it is true. Sometimes as parents we must trust God and turn our children over to him for protection and correction. If we try to shield them from the consequences of their actions, we are only making the situation worse in the long run.
Your faith in God, not your family, will pull you through this. Families fail you. They make the wrong decisions. They do horrible and hurtful things. They are human and sinners just like we all are. I pray your family will examine their hearts and see their. I pray they will be humbled before God so that He can mend their broken hearts. But I am postive that you, my sweet sister, rests firmly in the hand of God and nothing can snatch you from Him.
Karen
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/28/2008 7:36:55 PM
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Exsulence
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Dear ImSassy,
I don't mean to be a buttinski (this is my very first post on this forum), buttt... it sounds to me like your brother needs deliverence; not a divorce. His rage and anger are evidence of his spiritual immaturity due, no doubt, to his failure to seek the Lord daily, in prayer. But the poor fellow is by no means alone. Any one of us would be raging, too, under the circumstances, trying to manage a church in our own flesh, instead of in the power of the Lord.
As for your SIL, she is commanded to forgive him, no matter how badly she feels she has been "hurt." Hasn't she heard that if she does not forgive your brother, God the Father in heaven WILL NOT forgive her for her many sins? Her bitterness, by the way, is symptom number one of the sin of unforgiveness. (Do a google on it; you'll see for yourself.) I know whereof I speak, incidentally; I'm just coming off a stretch of the consequences of that sin myself, by the way.
Good grief, what sort of lifestyle did she expect as a minister's wife? She should be as "wed" to the church as he is, shouldn't she, since she and her husband are "one" since the day they were married? If her support of HIS ministry were her focus numero uno, why, they would be be so happy together, they couldn't wait to get at it each day!
The single biggest problem today in nearly every American church, in my opinion, is our leadership's failure to meet with the Lord, in daily devotions and prayer. If they just did that, I am convinced, our biggest church "problem" would be finding enough seating for all the new believers coming through our church doors each week.
I will pray for your brother as the Lord brings him to mind. Please keep us posted on the outcome, IMS.
Take care,
Exsulent
_____________________________
"Ah, Lord God, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and Your outstretched arm. Nothing is too difficult for You! (Jer. 32: 17)"
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RE: Pastor/Brother getting Divorce - 9/29/2008 9:35:15 AM
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SurpassingPeace
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Exsulence, welcome to the boards. I have to say I am a bit flabbergasted at your response and wanted some clarification.
quote:
I don't mean to be a buttinski (this is my very first post on this forum), buttt... it sounds to me like your brother needs deliverence; not a divorce.
quote:
Now they are getting a divorce due to a ferocious anger problem that my brother has. He is all things to the church and a very good Pastor but takes out all his frustration on his family. It has gone from mental abuse, emotional abuse, and has started to become physically abusive
I agree that her brother needs deliverance but what his wife and children needs is safety. In this situation, the wife and children's safety comes first.
quote:
Good grief, what sort of lifestyle did she expect as a minister's wife? She should be as "wed" to the church as he is, shouldn't she, since she and her husband are "one" since the day they were married? If her support of HIS ministry were her focus numero uno, why, they would be be so happy together, they couldn't wait to get at it each day!
She probably expected a lifestyle that was free from verbal, emotional, and physical abuse. She probably expected a lifestyle in which she did not have to fear for the safety of her children and her self. It is clear from the OP that her SIL was expected to maintain a hypocritcal front for the sake of appearances in the church. She did stand up and confess her bitterness. Which, though not directly implied, means to me she is trying to work on it.
quote:
If her support of HIS ministry were her focus numero uno, why, they would be be so happy together, they couldn't wait to get at it each day!
So are you saying that if she would just show a bit more enthusiam and support then the abuse would stop? Are you saying his actions are not really his responsibility but hers because she is just not supportive enough? So, it is all her fault? If that is what you are saying then it is one of the most blatant attempts to blame the victim I have seen in a long time. If you are saying it is her place to just try a little harder and support him more, then I am truly sick to my stomach.
I don't mean to come at you or attack you with all of these questions but what I am reading in your post caused me a lot of concern.
Karen
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