Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2)
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Total Votes : 51
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(last vote on : 11/21/2009 12:09:27 AM)
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Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Part 2) - 10/23/2009 2:16:03 PM
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evry1needsgod
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READ EVERYTHING IN THIS POST BEFORE YOU POST YOUR OPINION. NO EXCEPTIONS.
A couple months ago I created a thread with this same title. It was a highly trafficked thread, consisting of over 60 pages of comments! Personally, it was a blessing, and it served a great purpose.
Now, the following is very important. Unfortunately my thread was removed from the public and deleted. Upon speaking with the administration, the reason for its deletion was the countless TOS violations found therein. To remove each TOS would not only require time for the moderators to review and edit, but would render the thread nearly incomprehensible. The flow of each discussion would have been broken, therefore it was altogether removed.
In a recent thread, the discussion quickly turned from its original purpose to this precise topic. The moderators asked for a new thread of “Sinless Perfection” to be started if we wish to discuss the topic further. Here is that thread.
In my previous thread there was a lot of confusion as to the true topic. Here’s what I mean when I ask if it’s possible to stop sinning: Is it possible for a saved Christian to live the rest of his/her life without committing another sin?
Now, the following is very important. My recent thread was removed because the passion of our (those who participated) opinions simply got out of hand. I must include myself, as this topic has quickly and recently become the single most important and passionate aspect of my life.
Folks, I demand of myself respect for those who will participate. And the same must be shown by you if this thread is to begin and continue. Considering the past, the moderators will undoubtedly watch this thread like a hawk. I anticipate the demeanor and tone of this thread to be similar to the C/A One Stop Thread, which is fine, but that does not mean we can place Christian love and respect aside at the expense of our opinions and passions. I’m talking to myself here.
Well that’s that. Since this has been quite a lengthy introduction, I will not go into detail describing why I believe what I believe. Hopefully that will find its way into the discussion as I reply to others who post. I will say, however, that beyond a shadow of a doubt the answer is most certainly and gloriously YES. I'll add a couple Amen's and Hallelujah's to that one!
So, do you believe is it possible for a Christian to live the rest of his/her live without committing a single sin? Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning?
(edited for spelling errors)
p.s. For sake of reference, I have clearly laid out my explained and semi-detailed opinion in post #18.
(new edit)
I have added a poll.
In Christ,
ZG
< Message edited by evry1needsgod -- 10/24/2009 11:07:17 PM >
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:12:05 PM
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Johnny_
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I believe we can all stop the intentional sins, better known as deliberate disobedience to scripture (this is non-negotiable). However, I believe most of us are guilty of sinning out of ignorance. And most of us also struggle with some type of personal sin, but sometimes we will fall short. The keyword is battle and persevere. Just an FYI. If it was possible for us achieve sinless perfection, God would not have instructed us to say "forgive us our debts" in the Lord's prayer.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:19:22 PM
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Focusing
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quote:
Is it possible for a saved Christian to live the rest of his/her life without committing another sin?
No, I don't believe this is possible.
_____________________________
11/21 is the 11th Annual National Survivors of Suicide Day
Please remember to lift those in prayer who have lost a loved one to suicide
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:23:13 PM
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McFatty
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Not a chance. I've known many Christians in my life and have read many writings by my brothers in Christ, and in all of my dealings, I have never once heard a single person claim to be without sin in their lives. The Bible accounts for the continuing slips of the believer when the Lord instructed us to pray, every time we pray, for forgiveness for our trespasses. The bible accounts for the continuing slips in 1 John 2 when John reminds us that if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father. The Bible on more than one occasion links our forgiving others to our being forgiven. In Jesus' instructions on how we are to forgive others, He says that even if someone does the same offense against us 490 times, yet comes back and claims repentance each time, we are to forgive him each time. If perfection was attainable, why would such a provision be made?
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"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:33:43 PM
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evry1needsgod
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Johnny,
quote:
I believe we can all stop the intentional sins, better known as deliberate disobedience to scripture (this is non-negotiable). However, I believe most of us are guilty of sinning out of ignorance.
Is doing something that has not yet been revealed as a sin to you still a sin?
quote:
And most of us also struggle with some type of personal sin, but sometimes we will fall short.
Where in the Bible does it say that we WILL fall short?
quote:
The keyword is battle and persevere. Just an FYI. If it was possible for us achieve sinless perfection, God would not have instructed us to say "forgive us our debts" in the Lord's prayer.
That is merely commanding us to ask for forgiveness when and if we have done wrong. If the last time I have sinned was, say, yesterday, and I have already asked God to forgive me, then today I do not have to ask for forgiveness if I have not sinned today, correct?
God's instruction to ask for forgiveness does not necessarily mean that we sin all the time. It simply means that we are to ask for forgiveness when and if we do sin.
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:34:51 PM
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evry1needsgod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
quote:
Is it possible for a saved Christian to live the rest of his/her life without committing another sin?
No, I don't believe this is possible.
This saddens me. Why?
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:41:47 PM
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Diolectic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
So, do you believe is it possible for a Christian to live the rest of his/her live without committing a single sin? Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? Yes!!!
If one can not stop sinning, then it can not be repented of, and he is not guilty of it.
This is because if you can't stop sinning, it is out of your control, and if it is out of your control, you are not accountable to it.
IF one has to sin, then he can not be guilty of it.
No one is guilty of a necessity.
Sin is always a choice, which is able to be denied.
Sin must be repentable, if you can't stop what ever you call sin, it must not be sin.
Unless some one might say that it's not that he can't stop sinning a sertain sin, but he keeps finding new sins in his life; they keep popping up and the Lord keeps revealing them to him. But then, how do those sins get there but by his own choice to let them into his life?
The bottom line is that IF you can't stop sinning, then you are not disobeying God when you sin, but only doing that which you must.
Furthermore, if youre doing that which you must, then you can't repent of it.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:43:23 PM
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evry1needsgod
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quote:
Not a chance. I've known many Christians in my life and have read many writings by my brothers in Christ, and in all of my dealings, I have never once heard a single person claim to be without sin in their lives.
First, this all depends on what you mean by "to be without sin in their lives". If you mean that you've never once heard a person claim that they are, at the moment they are speaking to you, forgiven and without sin at the moment, then you are quite shelter, brother.
May I suggest (I'll be making this suggestion A LOT throughout this thread) a good dose of Romans 6.
quote:
The Bible accounts for the continuing slips of the believer when the Lord instructed us to pray, every time we pray, for forgiveness for our trespasses.
He merely accounts for the possibility for a believer to sin, not that every believe will and must sin because it impossible to live otherwise.
quote:
The bible accounts for the continuing slips in 1 John 2 when John reminds us that if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father.
Do you not realize the crucial word that you used in the phrase?--"IF"
quote:
The Bible on more than one occasion links our forgiving others to our being forgiven. In Jesus' instructions on how we are to forgive others, He says that even if someone does the same offense against us 490 times, yet comes back and claims repentance each time, we are to forgive him each time. If perfection was attainable, why would such a provision be made?
Because it is obvious that believer CAN sin, MF. And on many occasions they DO sin. Therefore, since they can and often do sin, provision must be made for forgiveness. Still, there is no verse that proves man must sin.
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:47:37 PM
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laura...
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I never read the previous thread so I'm jumping in here new to this topic.
Yes, Christians can stop sinning and they should strive to do so. Have I ever met one who has accomplished this feat? No. But that does not negate the possibility.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:50:01 PM
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evry1needsgod
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Dio,
quote:
If one can not stop sinning, then it can not be repented of, and he is not guilty of it.
This is because if you can't stop sinning, it is out of your control, and if it is out of your control, you are not accountable to it.
This profound truth will soon be questioned, my friend.
quote:
IF one has to sin, then he can not be guilty of it.
No one is guilty of a necessity.
Same here...
quote:
The bottom line is that IF you can't stop sinning, then you are not disobeying God when you sin, but only doing that which you must.
Precisely!
It's easy to say that it's not possible to stop sinning....but to say that demands the conclusion that if it is impossible to stop sinning, then we MUST sin. IOW, if it is impossible to stop sinning then we have no other choice but to sin because if we could hypothetically choose never to sin again then indeed it WOULD be possible.
This is why rcjames asked time and time again (in Part 1) for a verse that unequivocally states that we MUST sin. This is the only other option if one is to hold the opinion that sinless perfection is impossible...
Very well said, Dio.
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:51:35 PM
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Qtman
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I participated in the previous thread and probably will not post much here except to say we should not confuse "possibility" with "probability". We are told in scripture to be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. That would have to be sinless. However, God knowing our weak physical being made provisions for forgiveness when we do sin.
Is ir possible not to sin? Yes.
Is it probable? No.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 3:58:28 PM
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evry1needsgod
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laura,
quote:
I never read the previous thread so I'm jumping in here new to this topic.
Well Amen anyway!  The previous thread was one serious rollercoaster! Hopefully, however, this thread will not be as bumpy as the last. You're more than welcome, and please stay as long as your nerves can last. Hope you're not afraid of heights 
quote:
Yes, Christians can stop sinning and they should strive to do so. Have I ever met one who has accomplished this feat? No. But that does not negate the possibility.
It is quite likely that a Christian who accepted Christ on their death bed could have lived their entire life after salvation completely sinless?
Not only do I think it's possible, But I think it has happened in the lives of Christians throughout history, and will continue to occur in the lives of Christians yet to come.
Sadly but honestly, though, I can not include myself.
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:02:05 PM
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Intrepidus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
READ EVERYTHING IN THIS POST BEFORE YOU POST YOUR OPINION. NO EXCEPTIONS.
I love it! I have often wanted to include that at the top of my posts. It's so obvious when folks respond, often very passionately, who have not even given you the courtesy of reading your thoughts first. I'm going back to read the entire post now. But I had to comment after laughing out loud at your preamble. Awesome!!
-Intrepidus
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:04:48 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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Is it possible - Absolutely!
Should all try - Yes
Will all accomplish it - No
My basic thoughts I look forward to discussing and reading more as I have time. I think this is a very interesting topic and I am happy to see a new thread for it.
Peace,
Mary
_____________________________
Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:07:07 PM
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doinkdom
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I would like to meet someone at the end of their life and ask them this question.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:07:09 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
Is doing something that has not yet been revealed as a sin to you still a sin?
It was in the OT. And in the NT, offending a brother, leading him to sin, can be done in ignorance. I've seen people intentionally misrepresent my beliefs (bear false witness) in obvious condescension to my spiritual condition yet maintain all the while they are living in sinless perfection. They deceive themselves, but nobody else.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:17:29 PM
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Intrepidus
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Evry1,
Theoretically, I must admit that it is possible. Practically, however, I think it would be impossible. Our sinful nature is still very much an active part of who we are. It may not be in control as it was prior to conversion, but it still exercises tremendous influence (Romans 7 is a graphic example).
Even so, as new creatures in Christ, we always have a way out. God never allows us to be tempted beyond what we can bear (1 Cor 10:13). The sinful nature has been overthrown (Rom 8:9). So when we do sin, it's because we willingly submit ourselves to the flesh (Gal 5:13). Therefore, it must be possible to not sin.
Having made this concession, however, I think the chances of actually achieving that lofty goal are so infinitesimal as to be nil. Is it possible to flip a quarter 1,000,000,000 times and have it land on 'heads' each and every time? Yes. Would that ever happen in a million years? No.
In Christ,
-Intrepidus
< Message edited by Intrepidus -- 10/23/2009 4:25:39 PM >
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:19:42 PM
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evry1needsgod
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Since I did not include much of my opinion in my opening post, I will go ahead and do that now and provide a reference to it in my opening post.
I believe that every single individual needs to read Romans 6 in light of this topic.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Folks, as Christians we no longer serve sin. Our sin nature has been trumped by a nature much stronger that our previously fallen depravity (I make no reference to Calvinism here). We are no longer servants to sin, and we are no longer bound by our slavery to wickedness. We have put on a new man that possesses the ability to live the rest of our lives in complete perfection, all by the grace of God, the power of Christ, and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Although this may be hard to do for some, Paul makes it quite clear in Romans 6 that not a single Christian in the world must sin. You Are Free!!!!!
Consider the following:
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Now compare that with the following:
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Christian, if you make it an achievable goal to dedicate yourself to the leading of the Holy Spirit NO MATTER what, then God promises that you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh! You will not sin!!!
Christians need to realize that the Holy Spirit will never lead you into sin! I understand that this may be an issue for some (as some believe God foreordains sin), but the fact of the matter is that the leading of the Holy Spirit will guide you down the path of perfection. If you are not perfect at this very moment, it is only because you've chosen to ignore the leading of the Holy Spirit.
I guess the question now becomes whether or not it is possible to continually walk in the Spirit. Those who believe that it is impossible to stop sinning must also believe that it is somehow Biblically impossible to be led of the Spirit every moment of every day. This requires all the more Scriptural evidence that just doesn't exist, IMO.
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:24:36 PM
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laura...
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quote:
Having made this concession, however, I think the chances of actually achieving that lofty goal are so infinitesimal as to be nil.
If we are attempting to achieve sinlessness by our own strength, I agree, there is virtually no chance of reaching that goal. But, the Word of God tells us that we have help, a very strong help, in the Holy Spirit. Will we never sin again even with the help of the Holy Spirit, probably not. But, I think we could eradicate a lot more sin from our lives through the power of the Holy Spirit than we do. I think we more often than not cop out of the challenge by declaring it undoable.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:28:18 PM
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Ps103
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I think it depends entirely on how you define "sin."
If you define sin as deliberately doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes, then yeah, you can stop sinning.
If you define sin as "missing the mark" of perfection, then no, you cannot. You can strive to be more perfect, but you never will achieve it.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:28:35 PM
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Intrepidus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
But, I think we could eradicate a lot more sin from our lives through the power of the Holy Spirit than we do. I think we more often than not cop out of the challenge by declaring it undoable.
Ain't that the truth? I think I'm going to put 1 Cor 10:13, Gal 5:13, and Tit 2:11-14 on an index card and carry it with me at all times.
-Intrepidus
< Message edited by Intrepidus -- 10/23/2009 5:02:47 PM >
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:30:57 PM
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stampinlady
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I believe that scriputre is clear that we will always sin, but we can choose not to. My biggest proof is the Lords Prayer - Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors and all of 1 John.
_____________________________
Deb
"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks."
Calvin and Hobbes
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:35:50 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 1744
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
I think it depends entirely on how you define "sin."
If you define sin as deliberately doing something you know is wrong in God's eyes, then yeah, you can stop sinning.
If you define sin as "missing the mark" of perfection, then no, you cannot. You can strive to be more perfect, but you never will achieve it.
One last thought before I leave.
Ps103, I think you nailed it. Herein lies the brunt of the discussion, and I look forward to the conversations that lie ahead.
In Christ,
ZG
_____________________________
Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!--drmark
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RE: Is it possible for a Christian to stop sinning? (Pa... - 10/23/2009 4:54:54 PM
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WilliamtheConqueror
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Not a chance. I've known many Christians in my life and have read many writings by my brothers in Christ, and in all of my dealings, I have never once heard a single person claim to be without sin in their lives. The Bible accounts for the continuing slips of the believer when the Lord instructed us to pray, every time we pray, for forgiveness for our trespasses. The bible accounts for the continuing slips in 1 John 2 when John reminds us that if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father. The Bible on more than one occasion links our forgiving others to our being forgiven. In Jesus' instructions on how we are to forgive others, He says that even if someone does the same offense against us 490 times, yet comes back and claims repentance each time, we are to forgive him each time. If perfection was attainable, why would such a provision be made?
Bertha Smith, Southern Baptist Missionary, claimed she had reached sinless perfection!
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I hope to keep the civility intact in this thread because the previous thread turned out to be anything but civil, no thanks to me unfortunately.