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GOP Plan - 11/5/2009 9:59:13 AM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
The full text of the 219-page, common-sense Republican alternative to Speaker Pelosi’s 1,990-page government takeover of health care is now available. You can find a PDF version here. A summary of the bill is also posted online for your covenience.
LINK
SUMMARY
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/5/2009 7:30:08 PM
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litfire2000
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From what I gleaned from the summary this is mostly business as usual. Being able to purchase insurance across state lines and capping lawsuits are the main differences from the system we have now. Insurance companies selling across state lines may be a good idea. Capping awards in lawsuits is, in my opinion, at best draconian. How much is a ruined life, lost income, a broken body or loss of a life worth? Most lawyers will not touch a medical lawsuit without a reasonable expectation of a favorable ruling. Arbitrary mediation and capping of lawsuits is a bad idea for the consuming public.
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/5/2009 8:52:10 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000
Insurance companies selling across state lines may be a good idea.
Until one or two states realize that they can get a couple thousand jobs by dropping their insurance standards and enticing the insurance companies to relocate. Then we have insurance companies doing the same thing as the credit card companies.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/5/2009 10:04:01 PM
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huangshan
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So, from what I understand the GOP bill does reduce the deficit, but the Democrats' plan reduces the deficit by more, and it covers more people.
Updated to remove an embarrassing typo!
< Message edited by huangshan -- 11/6/2009 1:50:15 PM >
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/5/2009 10:25:38 PM
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tacitus
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The GOP plan would not solve the problem of pre-existing conditions. If you already have health problems (and they need not be that major) and you don't have a job with insurance, you would still be completely out of luck. One illness could see you in bankruptcy, as hundreds of thousands already find themselves in already every year.
The insurance companies love this plan -- I wonder why...
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 9:40:14 AM
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Lapidoth
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This is the typical "point of view".
Dems redues the budget more? get real.
Dems cover more? Sure, with no regard to expense.
People just need to take responsibility for their own lives.
The government needs to get out of this and allow us to
be responsible.
This is all a major smoke-screen anyway.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 9:51:16 AM
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Tarox
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Doesn't it seem like providing Americans with health insurance isn't the right way to tackle this issue?
Shouldn't we be going after the cost of health care procedures?
If health care were affordable, we wouldn't need to pay so much for insurrance, because insurrance wouldn't have to pay so much.
Finding a way to manage the cost could help avoid the bigger government that the GOP is so against, while still making health care a more viable option for the folks the Dems want to help. No idea how to do it, but maybe if we'd spent the past year focusing on that instead of insurrance...
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 10:09:29 AM
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Lapidoth
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managing cost it the thing.
not FREE coverage for everyone.
I don't have insurance, but I'm not
lacking in healthcare. I purchase
vitamins, pay for health care, etc.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 10:10:12 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
So, from what I understand the GOP bill does reduce the deficit, but the Democrats' plan reduces the budget by more, and it covers more people.
Can you please esplain to me how that is possible?
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 10:13:33 AM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
So, from what I understand the GOP bill does reduce the deficit, but the Democrats' plan reduces the budget by more, and it covers more people.
Can you please esplain to me how that is possible?
government mathematics and slight of hand tricks.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 10:14:14 AM
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Tarox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
managing cost it the thing.
not FREE coverage for everyone.
I don't have insurance, but I'm not
lacking in healthcare. I purchase
vitamins, pay for health care, etc.
I think cost management is a place the two parties could agree on. I'd be ok with the insurance bill failing if we could get something done about the cost of care
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 10:22:12 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: litfire2000Capping awards in lawsuits is, in my opinion, at best draconian. How much is a ruined life, lost income, a broken body or loss of a life worth? Most lawyers will not touch a medical lawsuit without a reasonable expectation of a favorable ruling. Arbitrary mediation and capping of lawsuits is a bad idea for the consuming public.
Capping awards would lower the cost of malpractice insurance and more importantly would greatly aid in eliminating defensive medicine thereby lowering medical costs. Currently doctors are prone to perform tests that are likely to be unnecessary just to cover themselves if something happens and they have to defend their decisions. This is something that is a common complaint from those receiving medical care, they wonder why the doctor wants test XYZ when it probably has nothing to do with their illness. The answer is the doctor is scared that if they don't do the test it will be used against them in court to win a case. This all adds up to alot of wasted money that insurance companies must recoup through increased premiums or refusing to pay for the tests.
As to your question what is a ruined life or broken body worth? Well that is a touchy subject and one I dont' believe can ever be effectively answered because it is based on feelings. The lost income question is much easier, there are limitations upon what most of us will ever make in our lives as income. A 45 year old car mechanic is not likely to be the CEO of a fortune 500 company anytime soon so within reason we can make an educated guess on what he will make in his lifetime.
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 12:49:01 PM
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huangshan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
So, from what I understand the GOP bill does reduce the deficit, but the Democrats' plan reduces the budget by more, and it covers more people.
Can you please esplain to me how that is possible?
The plans do pretty different things. Ultimately, it seems pretty clear that the Democratic plan is superior, but there may be a good argument to include medical malpractice reform in the final bill. At the same time, if Republicans are at all honest about concern for America's deficit and desiring for fiscal restraint, it seems prudent to back the Dem plan over their own.
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 1:11:15 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
So, from what I understand the GOP bill does reduce the deficit, but the Democrats' plan reduces the budget by more, and it covers more people.
Can you please esplain to me how that is possible?
The plans do pretty different things. Ultimately, it seems pretty clear that the Democratic plan is superior, but there may be a good argument to include medical malpractice reform in the final bill. At the same time, if Republicans are at all honest about concern for America's deficit and desiring for fiscal restraint, it seems prudent to back the Dem plan over their own.
ha, ha, ha.
Superior? Only to a liberal.
Republican roll over and give in................you can dream.
They have and probably will, but the American people never will.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 1:30:26 PM
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davemiller7
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From: NC via NY
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I only read the summary, but it makes sense to me. However, it doesn't make provision for the government to control my life, so Nancy Pelosi wouldn't go along with it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
The full text of the 219-page, common-sense Republican alternative to Speaker Pelosi’s 1,990-page government takeover of health care is now available. You can find a PDF version here. A summary of the bill is also posted online for your covenience.
LINK
SUMMARY
_____________________________
"Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen." - Martin Luther
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 1:35:34 PM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
So, from what I understand the GOP bill does reduce the deficit, but the Democrats' plan reduces the budget by more, and it covers more people.
Can you please esplain to me how that is possible?
The plans do pretty different things. Ultimately, it seems pretty clear that the Democratic plan is superior, but there may be a good argument to include medical malpractice reform in the final bill. At the same time, if Republicans are at all honest about concern for America's deficit and desiring for fiscal restraint, it seems prudent to back the Dem plan over their own.
No how is it that the democrats plan is slated to increase the deficit but you claim it reduces the budget. That is an impossibility.
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 1:41:25 PM
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huangshan
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Ah, ha ha, yes, that's me using the wrong word. :-P
De-typoed version:
So, from what I understand the GOP bill does reduce the deficit, but the Democrats' plan reduces the deficit by more, and it covers more people.
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 2:20:10 PM
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Lapidoth
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Covers more.
As in those who earn it, they have ten dollars.
Those who don't earn it, they have what they
can manipulate out of others.
the government will level the playing field.
Now, everyone will get one cent whether they
earn it or not.
So, now we can rhetorically claim everyone is covered.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 3:20:16 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1237
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Free money! Ah, life is good!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Covers more.
As in those who earn it, they have ten dollars.
Those who don't earn it, they have what they
can manipulate out of others.
the government will level the playing field.
Now, everyone will get one cent whether they
earn it or not.
So, now we can rhetorically claim everyone is covered.
_____________________________
"Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen." - Martin Luther
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 3:27:49 PM
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tacitus
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Funny how every single country on the planet that has universal health care does it for around half or less than half the cost of the American system, per capita...
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 3:30:05 PM
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GregandJenny
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excuse me but I can't understand for the life of me why my republicans are being reactive, and weren't be proactive. It's really to late now.
G 
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It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 4:16:01 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
Funny how every single country on the planet that has universal health care does it for around half or less than half the cost of the American system, per capita...
Looks like we need tort reform? huh.
But we continue having lawyers make the laws. otay.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 4:28:12 PM
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phreddy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Ah, ha ha, yes, that's me using the wrong word. :-P
De-typoed version:
So, from what I understand the GOP bill does reduce the deficit, but the Democrats' plan reduces the deficit by more, and it covers more people.
The problem is that way the democrat plan reduces the deficit is due to government accounting. The cost is assessed over 10 years. In the democrat plan, the new taxes start immediately, however, the health-care coverage does not start for 3 years. So in the CBO estimate, you have 10 years of taxes versus 7 years of costs. The democrat health-care plan runs a deficit every single year that it is in place. Only by adding 3 years of taxes to the front-end can they make the claim of reducing the deficit.
Also, since the democrats think we can wait 3 three for coverage, why not implement the republican plan first and see what the results are. Then if it doesn't work, pass the democrat plan.
Naw.....That would make too much sense.
< Message edited by phreddy -- 11/6/2009 4:54:08 PM >
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RE: GOP Plan - 11/6/2009 5:24:37 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
Capping awards would lower the cost of malpractice insurance and more importantly would greatly aid in eliminating defensive medicine thereby lowering medical costs.
Capping the awards means that it won't cost as much for the patients who die because they didn't receive adequate care from this government option.....
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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